[Sussex] monks farm planning

DarrenFreemansPerm · Oct 4, 2018

Stat Brother said:
The one thing this thread, the Valley Gardens thread, and any other transportation thread has in common, is selfish posts like yours:-

'How does this effect me in my car? Badly'.

Therefore it's bad, the whole thing is bad unless we build more roads.

The point I was making is:-

How many people actually NEED to be on the road at that time.
I'm sure the answer would be a disproportionally small number.

The problem comes when that's followed up by 'well what are my other options?'

The answer isn't more roads, the answer is better transportation.

It would seem thinking holistically is somewhat troublesome for many who are stuck in their boxes.

Just out of curiosity how have you come to the conclusion of my ignorance on this subject, and how do you know I am unaffected by it?

Because you’ve suggested people queue needlessly behind buses, I don’t recall ever seeing one on the A27. You blamed unnecessary school runs, from 7am and between 5pm and 6:30pm, seems unlikely, especially given the lack of children in cars during these peak hours. You claimed people don’t all have to start work at the same time, how many people can pick and choose when they start? Not many that I know. You also seem to think that the majority of Lancing and Sompting is making an unnecessary commute to Shoreham every day, yet you seem to have no understanding of who’s actually using the road during these hours.
What do you propose as the alternative methods of transport?

Stat Brother · Oct 4, 2018

Uter said:
I admire your unwavering commitment to the idea that a transport policy that prioritises the least efficient mode of transport might not be the most sensible solution in urban areas. You are up against some pretty entrenched opinions from people who cannot see it the same way as you. I gave up after being on the receiving end of a visceral and rather incoherent rant for expressing what I thought was a pretty innocuous opinion about an efficient mode of transport possibly not being used to its full potential at the Amex.

Yeah I blame Twitter.

For reasons I don't understand my feed has gone from Albion, journos (either side of the pond), blokes attempting to get a Darwin Award, and bits and pieces about cycling.
To now where everything other than blokes attempting to get a Darwin Award has been dwarfed by some really interesting stuff on transportation and urban planning.

In my bubble I now know how Trump got elected. :lolol:

I'm sure many posters (drivers) think I'm just being a selfish cyclist, but that's not really it.
Today I cycled 75 miles around Best Sussex and Hampshire and probably (with the obvious exception of Chichester) saw more cars leaving and returning to my village, than I did on the rest of the ride.

The Large One · Oct 4, 2018

blue-shifted said:
It’s difficult to see how alternative transport can alleviate the traffic in this area.

There’s already a regular coastline train service serving all the towns along the Sussex coast. There’s a coastline bus service.

It’s never going to be a popular cycling route (hills, fast traffic, long distances).

The problem is most journeys between towns don’t start or stop near enough a public transport route to make using public transport quick or easy. If you live and work in the same town, you can probably get by without a car. If not and you don’t work or live near a station (and living near a station, you’ll pay a huge premium for) it’s difficult to get by without one. The distances along the sussex coast are too great for cycling and the time taken by public transport is prohibitive.

Depends what you refer to as 'prohibitive', and your example isn't the best.

As an example, it's a 21-24 minute train journey from Lancing to Brighton, making 5-7 stops en route. The 700 bus is around 40 minutes. Pretty much everyone in the village is within a walking distance of the station and/or bus stops. My partner in crime on the wireless often does the Brighton - Worthing / Worthing - Brighton cycle ride along the coast. Hardly any hills to speak of, and all done in about 45 minutes (I believe is his record).

However, once you move inland, THEN there are issues with public transport, at which point I'd agree with you.

Triggaaar · Oct 4, 2018

The Clamp said:
Look at the Brighton Road development in Shoreham. Sorry but it’s just wrong. I do get your point but there has to be middle ground. Just look at it.

View attachment 101036

I haven't been there and seen it, or seen the plans etc. If it's wrong, it's down to the council, simple as that. Obviously they shouldn't be allowing over-development. Not much point in blaming the developers though, of course they're going to want to build big on their land, as has always been the case.

perseus · Oct 5, 2018

Before any work can begin, developers have to negotiate the section 106 legal agreement. This is a list of conditions they must adhere to in order for full planning permission to be granted, including provisions of mitigating infrastructure such as flood defences and the roundabout replacing the A27 Sussex Pad junction. https://www.worthingherald.co.uk/news/what-happens-next-with-plans-for-ikea-in-lancing-1-8657588

Stat Brother · Oct 5, 2018

The Large One said:
However, once you move inland, THEN there are issues with public transport, at which point I'd agree with you.

But despite all the wailing and gnashing of teeth 'oh I can't possibly move without my car', we all know full well people could.
If private use petrol was banned tomorrow everyone would still get to work on Monday, but most journeys would be an utter expensive ball-ache, switching between bus, train, trampoline and god forbid walking.

beorhthelm · Oct 5, 2018

Stat Brother said:
But despite all the wailing and gnashing of teeth 'oh I can't possibly move without my car', we all know full well people could.
If private use petrol was banned tomorrow everyone would still get to work on Monday, but most journeys would be an utter expensive ball-ache, switching between bus, train, trampoline and god forbid walking.

we've become too much a nation of commuters for that to be viable. you'd have to put on a lot of buses and to non-existant routes to replace the car.

pastafarian · Oct 5, 2018

The Clamp said:
Shame. No infrastructure to support such a huge development. Two previously preserved lovely areas , Lancing and Shoreham simply getting swamped by greedy developers. I know people in Brighton don’t care as they like high buildings and see vast shops as progress but the area simply cannot support this development.

The Clamp said:
Well, high rises in Shoreham, No. Full stop. But I have no problem with housing projects etc as long as they also create the infrastructure to accommodate the people.
In the next 5 years we have potentially an extra 3 - 4000 people moving in. We have one small NHS clinic and a closing Southlands hospital. Doesn’t take a genius to work out that won’t work..

I have some sympathy with the clamp on this when an increase on the population doesn’t reflect on the ability of the infrastructure to support it. It’s a genuine concern of local residents to raise these issues and hope someone listens.
But then on the brexit thread when the influx of immigrants not supporting the infrastructure in areas such as NHS clinics and hospitals, he says these concerns are unfounded by xenophobes, racists and thicko little Englanders.
Cant help but think his hypocrisy is biting him in the shoreham arse.

The Clamp · Oct 5, 2018

Triggaaar said:
I haven't been there and seen it, or seen the plans etc. If it's wrong, it's down to the council, simple as that. Obviously they shouldn't be allowing over-development. Not much point in blaming the developers though, of course they're going to want to build big on their land, as has always been the case.

No point blaming the developers? They’re the ones building it.

The Clamp · Oct 5, 2018

Triggaaar said:
I haven't been there and seen it, or seen the plans etc. If it's wrong, it's down to the council, simple as that. Obviously they shouldn't be allowing over-development. Not much point in blaming the developers though, of course they're going to want to build big on their land, as has always been the case.

Don’t blame a murderer for stabbing someone to death. Blame the person who sold him a knife. Murderers are always going to want to kill people, as has always been the case.

You seem like a nice guy Trigaar but you don’t half post some rubbish.

Stat Brother · Oct 5, 2018

beorhthelm said:
we've become too much a nation of commuters for that to be viable. you'd have to put on a lot of buses and to non-existant routes to replace the car.

Oh absolutely, my point is the options are there, they are, for a multitude of reasons fairly unpalatable, which is the bit I feel needs to change before the knee-jerk reaction of 'we need more roads' & 'i couldn't possibly cope without my car'.

Triggaaar · Oct 5, 2018

The Clamp said:
No point blaming the developers? They’re the ones building it.

The Clamp said:
Don’t blame a murderer for stabbing someone to death. Blame the person who sold him a knife. Murderers are always going to want to kill people, as has always been the case.

That's a strange analogy, but I'll go with it.

If we had an ex-SAS soldier who was mentally ill, and once a month they walked the streets armed to the teeth, and shot one person, and then went home, and the government and police said we should leave him alone, would you blame the soldier or the government?

It's the council's responsibility to make sure people don't over-extend their homes, build shitty looking houses, or over-develop the land. Blame the developer if it makes you feel better, but that will never achieve anything. Councils are in a position to do something about it, pretty much every human is capable of being a developer for the piece of land they own and you're not going to make every single one of them choose not to take a profit.

You seem like a nice guy Trigaar

You seem like someone who doesn't think that.

but you don’t half post some rubbish.

You seem to disagree with most of what I post, and I feel the same about your posts.

The Clamp · Oct 5, 2018

Triggaaar said:
That's a strange analogy, but I'll go with it.

If we had an ex-SAS soldier who was mentally ill, and once a month they walked the streets armed to the teeth, and shot one person, and then went home, and the government and police said we should leave him alone, would you blame the soldier or the government?

It's the council's responsibility to make sure people don't over-extend their homes, build shitty looking houses, or over-develop the land. Blame the developer if it makes you feel better, but that will never achieve anything. Councils are in a position to do something about it, pretty much every human is capable of being a developer for the piece of land they own and you're not going to make every single one of them choose not to take a profit.

You seem like someone who doesn't think that.
You seem to disagree with most of what I post, and I feel the same about your posts.

Sorry I can’t go down one of your multi quote rabbit holes today so I’ll just take it as a given that you’ve typed a load of gibberish. Again.

Have a keen day.
TBTC

Stat Brother · Oct 8, 2018

Apropos of not a lot beyond the fact this is the last transport thread.
I have something to share, it's the work of a bloody genius, concerning Arundel train station.

I'll try and keep this concise:-

Arundel train station is alone on the south side of the A27.
Naturally just past the humpback bridge.
There is nothing, not even a footpath, on the south side, everything esp Arundel is all situated to the north of the A27.
Access on foot to and from the station is via the pedestrian crossing, stopping the A27.

That's how it's been for yonks, donkey's years, longer than I can remember.

Cycling past there today and it's all changed.
A genius has thought, 'let's run a footpath from the pedestrian crossing, down to the bridge, then under the road next to the train track, coming out at the station'.

The pedestrian crossing must now be all but obsolete, traffic has a chance to move freely, and all the pedestrians are safe, for what must have cost a 5 maybe even 4 figure sum.

Maybe a native will be along to say that planning proposal has been fought over for the last 20 years.
But from the outside looking in it seems an idea that's 50+ years too late, has happened over night.

BensGrandad · Oct 8, 2018

It astounds me that we cannot build a flyover going from The Adur flyover to the Sompting by pass and also from Lyons Farm to Swandean allowing west travelling traffic to go on and the existing roads and roundabouts to be used by local traffic. This has be done on the A1 in Cyprus north of Limmasol on the main Larnaca to Paphos road so why cant it be done in England.

Yoda · Oct 8, 2018

BensGrandad said:
It astounds me that we cannot build a flyover going from The Adur flyover to the Sompting by pass and also from Lyons Farm to Swandean allowing west travelling traffic to go on and the existing roads and roundabouts to be used by local traffic. This has be done on the A1 in Cyprus north of Limmasol on the main Larnaca to Paphos road so why cant it be done in England.

Because maybe, just maybe. They can be chuffing ugly. :shrug:

tail-light-trails-from-traffic-beneath-the-elevated-section-of-the-H4N6WB.jpg

I'm pretty sure even YOU wouldn't like this right outside your front door.

mikeyjh · Oct 8, 2018

Yoda said:
I'm pretty sure even YOU wouldn't like this right outside your front door.

Bloody nimbies

lawros left foot · Oct 8, 2018

BensGrandad said:
It astounds me that we cannot build a flyover going from The Adur flyover to the Sompting by pass and also from Lyons Farm to Swandean allowing west travelling traffic to go on and the existing roads and roundabouts to be used by local traffic. This has be done on the A1 in Cyprus north of Limmasol on the main Larnaca to Paphos road so why cant it be done in England.

We could get the EU to help fund it,there shouldn’t be any problem with that.

Tim Over Whelmed · Oct 8, 2018

Stat Brother said:
Apropos of not a lot beyond the fact this is the last transport thread.
I have something to share, it's the work of a bloody genius, concerning Arundel train station.

I'll try and keep this concise:-

Arundel train station is alone on the south side of the A27.
Naturally just past the humpback bridge.
There is nothing, not even a footpath, on the south side, everything esp Arundel is all situated to the north of the A27.
Access on foot to and from the station is via the pedestrian crossing, stopping the A27.

That's how it's been for yonks, donkey's years, longer than I can remember.

Cycling past there today and it's all changed.
A genius has thought, 'let's run a footpath from the pedestrian crossing, down to the bridge, then under the road next to the train track, coming out at the station'.

The pedestrian crossing must now be all but obsolete, traffic has a chance to move freely, and all the pedestrians are safe, for what must have cost a 5 maybe even 4 figure sum.

Maybe a native will be along to say that planning proposal has been fought over for the last 20 years.
But from the outside looking in it seems an idea that's 50+ years too late, has happened over night.

The new path has taken a lot of negotiation and consent, I think the reason this didn't happen before was everyone's been saying "When the bypass is built the relief road will be quieter" etc etc. Action has now been Taken. The lights should be removed at some point but I think that's outside of Arundel Town Council remit.

Medwayseagull · Oct 8, 2018

BensGrandad said:
It astounds me that we cannot build a flyover going from The Adur flyover to the Sompting by pass and also from Lyons Farm to Swandean allowing west travelling traffic to go on and the existing roads and roundabouts to be used by local traffic. This has be done on the A1 in Cyprus north of Limmasol on the main Larnaca to Paphos road so why cant it be done in England.

Because we don't have enough Greek cypriot builders.

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