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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheshire Cat View Post
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    About 1,600 German civilians and Russian forced labourers were drowned by the floods.
    Innocence first casualty et al
    "Never miss a good chance to shut up"

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    • #22

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      Quote Originally Posted by AmexRuislip View Post
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      I know, its madness, just for a circus wedding!
      My wife said Windsor is becoming unbearable as a place to work this week. All the crazies began camping out on Tuesday, the Americans especially have arrived en masse and security is ramping up by the day, she’s got 4 armed police outside their premises and they’re down a back street! And the number of TV crews and global media is off the scale...it’s not a very big place Windsor when the eyes of the world are fixed on it! Should of moved it to Slough registrar ;)
      "Never miss a good chance to shut up"
    • #23
      Resident pedant Triggaaar's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Cheshire Cat View Post
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      About 1,600 German civilians and Russian forced labourers were drowned by the floods.
      Yes it wasn't actually a great mission, but those in the bombers weren't to know that and they risked their lives for the cause in general, which was worthwhile.
      Hold tight, my man
      He's got the frisbee
    • #24
      Members jakarta's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Cheshire Cat View Post
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      About 1,600 German civilians and Russian forced labourers were drowned by the floods.
      And hundreds of thousands of Germans and Forced Labourers of all nationalities were killed over the 1942-45 bombing campaigns by the RAF at night and USAAF by day. There is no doubt, however, that strategic bombing (not that the Dams Raid was strictly speaking part of the overall campaign) shortened the war in Europe and saved both Allied and German lives.
    • #25
      Old Brightonian Mackenzie's Avatar
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      My Gramps was based at RAF Scampton during the war. He was a blacksmith by trade so joined the ground crew repairing and servicing the planes.

      To cut a long story short, one of his jobs was welding the bouncing bombs, weighting them so that they rotated prior to being dropped from the Lancs.

      He also worked for fighter command for a while, but he loved those Lancaster’s more than any Spitfire or Hurricane. The main thing that came over to me when I talked about those times with him was a sense of sadness at all the pilots that didn’t return. I wish now that I’d asked him more about what happened, but he was really reticent about talking about it.

      I’m very proud of him.
      The height of two men, the weight of four, the strength of sixteen.....
    • #26
      Members Perfidious Albion's Avatar
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      Terrible thing to do though, 16000 innocents died. It would be considered a war crime today
    • #27
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      Quote Originally Posted by spongy View Post
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      My nan's brother (so great uncle??) Was a dam buster navigator on a Lancaster.

      My mum found all his old war letters and medals in a box in the loft of my nan's house.

      My dad saw them and wanted to know more so did a LOAD of research wanting to know more.

      Since found out loads. He was shot down over the channel just over the Belgian coast on the return of his 23rd sortie.

      We even have the location he was shot down. Where the wreck was found, his squadron, crew, plane number and nickname. (Can't remember exact details off hand)

      My dad also found a whole load of WWII maps that he used with notes scribbled on them to help him. They're in almost pristine condition. Not worth a lot in monetary terms but at the same time invaluable memorabilia.

      During his research he went with my mum up to RAF Coningsby where the Memorial Flight Lancaster is based and took all the letters and maps with him.

      The Lancaster was grounded as it was having repair work done but they spent hours in the museum and having a look around.

      They went to a cafe to have a coffee and two blokes in airsuits sat near them. My dad being dad started a conversation asking if they were pilots and was told that they were called Roger and Ian the pilot and navigator of the Lancaster.

      It was then that my dad said "I have something in my bag that may interest you" and preceded to show them all the letters, medals and maps he had.

      The two blokes. Roger Collins the pilot and Ian Shaw the navigator were awestruck and in awe of it all as they're still serving RAF.

      My dad said to Ian that he wanted him to keep two of the maps and gave them to him. At first he wouldn't take them saying they should be museum pieces but my dad insisted. He begrudgingly took them.

      As a thankyou Roger said "come with me I have something to show you". And then took them to the hanger that the Lancaster is stored in. Due to the repairs happening they couldn't start it but the two of them gave my mum and dad a personal tour of the whole plane. Every part of it. Even in the cockpit. He allowed my dad to sit in the pilot seat. My mum refused, even after lots of cajoling but insisted that it was a "mans seat, a seat for heroes" and wasn't comfortable sitting in it.

      Whilst in the cockpit, Ian, the navigator took the two maps and put one on the board and one on the bench area and said " these stay here, and will never be moved, these maps belong on this plane, as part of history, every time this plane flies be safe in the knowledge that they are here as a mark of respect to those few brave souls".

      I personally think it's amazing that my family paid so much and somehow by a twist of luck and being in the right place at the right that they my parents met Roger and Ian.

      If ever you see the Lancaster memorial flight know that there is genuine maps from WWII missions in that cockpit.

      This was 3 years ago this happened and I saw the Lancaster last year flying. I cried at the thought of this and am now writing it.

      My two pennies worth anyway.....
      Thank you for sharing that.
      We're going up, we're going to win the Cup, for Sussex by the Sea.
    • #28
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      The film is still a great watch, a no long time before CGI
      Brexit is like trying to remove the egg from an omelette. Updated Spring 2018
    • #29
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      Quote Originally Posted by Cheshire Cat View Post
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      About 1,600 German civilians and Russian forced labourers were drowned by the floods.
      And how many of our innocents died as a result of German attacks on Britain when our cities were bombed night after night - if you check you will find it is 60,000.
      We're going up, we're going to win the Cup, for Sussex by the Sea.
    • #30

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      Quote Originally Posted by Perfidious Albion View Post
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      Terrible thing to do though, 16000 innocents died. It would be considered a war crime today

      On what basis are you concluding that 16,000 “innocents” died?

      I can understand that babes in arms, and even children (some of which may have been in the Hitler Youth or League of Maidens) could be construed as innocent, but you are seriously suggesting that no committed supporters of Hitler and/or those Germans (and others) willing to support his aims were killed in this raid?

      Bombing dams is now against the Geneva Convention, the historical context about the bombing of the Germandams is that the RAF got there quicker than the Luftwaffe. The Germans had their own bouncing bomb which was rocket propelled and trialled. They had targets like Derwent drawn up, but after the RAF’s success the defences around U.K. dams were strengthened.

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