[Football] Allardyce Sacked

seagulls4ever · May 16, 2018

Easy 10 said:
As regards the ways round 3rd party ownership, its pure supposition to say he'd help them find ways round it if needed. He never offered that, he just said there are ways round it, which anyone involved in the game would know. To sack him on that basis was flimsy in the extreme. Had he of been of a mind to, I'm sure a lawsuit for unfair dismissal would've found in his favour. I expect the FA had to give him a VERY handsome payoff to swerve that particular sticky wicket.

And as [MENTION=12935]GT49er[/MENTION] correctly said, BFS was plenty good enough for Everton, he did exactly the job he was brought in to do. The previous incumbants made a complete sows ear of the recruitment last summer, so he was lumbered with an unbalanced squad that was listing dangerously towards the dropzone. He steadied the ship and kept them up comfortably with room to spare. Now the goons on the board have kow-towed to the Goodison crowd who think they should be doing it playing like Brazil 1970.

Lets see how that works out, as plenty of clubs have certainly learned to rue binning off Sam for someone more "fashionable".

To be fair, I have some sympathy with Everton fans - their football has been turgid. Allardyce saved them this season but he's not a good option for them going forward - he's not going to change his ways.

I had far less sympathy with the goons who wanted Martinez out after he achieved their highest ever PL points tally the previous season paying attacking football, and guided them to two cup semi finals the season he was sacked (12th in the league).

NooBHA · May 16, 2018

GT49er said:
He's plenty good enough for Everton (and England; those smart arses that set up the sting did England football no favours at all) - it's Everton's loss (and I'm not just thinking about the £6M quid they've shelled out for nothing).

Never a truer word was said.........................The Press wanted Sam out and they baited and got him out. Big Sam was never gonna let the Newspapers pick his England Team and they knew that. They have got Southgate on Puppet strings but they knew Big Sam would never stand for that so they made sure they got him out another way.

Say what you like about Sam but he can get average players performing to their Max and he has proved that time and time again. Not pretty but he grinds out results. He deserves every penny he has had out of football because the Clubs he has managed have made millions out of the results he has achieved for them.

Thunder Bolt · May 16, 2018

seagulls4ever said:
Is that true? Or is it a repeat of the Guy Poyet situation, where it was presented like he had been sacked on live TV.

Not just him but the CEO change as well

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/disgusted-sam-allardyce-slams-everton-12543192

https://twitter.com/dondarius471/status/996664566389100546

https://twitter.com/AHunterGuardian/status/996697966772740097

Pavilionaire · May 16, 2018

So owner Moshiri spent £10 million paying off Roberto Martinez in a one-off payment, Koeman was on £6 mill a year with 16 months still to run when he was sacked, Allardyce will be due £6 million for the final year of his contract and if they bring in Marco Silva Watford will want compensation for him being illegally tapped up this season.

Watford rejected a £12mill compensation offer from Everton for Silva, and he hasn't worked since being sacked by Watford so either way Everton are going to be hit hard financially.

If Rooney goes to the States then they'll be losing their top scorer two seasons in a row and it could start to unravel for the Toffees.

Easy 10 · May 16, 2018

Triggaaar said:
That's not the case, as they could feel that it was gross misconduct, bat Sam's lawyer Easy 10 could argue that it isn't, so there could be a court case. Instead they offered him a figure (less than what he was due to be paid if he saw his contract out) and he took it.

See above.

Of course he was pushed, but he could have had his full contract paid off if he didn't know they had a point. Like when managers are normally sacked, they get the whole lot paid, as they've done nothing wrong.

Indeed.

The point you're really arguing is that he hadn't done enough wrong to have to leave. As I said above, I don't think he needed to leave either, the FA are ****ing useless, but I don't agree that he did nothing wrong, and if he hadn't, I don't think he'd have walked for £1m either. Like you say, he wanted the job.

Look, we could go round in circles like this all day (well, we pretty much have). But the point is, you said he was "barely sacked".

He absolutely WAS sacked by the FA, but with a mutually agreed payoff. It can, and often does happen.

Weststander · May 16, 2018

LlcoolJ said:
If that were the case (gross misconduct) then they wouldn't have had to pay him anything.

True.

Weststander · May 16, 2018

Pavilionaire said:
So owner Moshiri spent £10 million paying off Roberto Martinez in a one-off payment, Koeman was on £6 mill a year with 16 months still to run when he was sacked, Allardyce will be due £6 million for the final year of his contract and if they bring in Marco Silva Watford will want compensation for him being illegally tapped up this season.

Watford rejected a £12mill compensation offer from Everton for Silva, and he hasn't worked since being sacked by Watford so either way Everton are going to be hit hard financially.

If Rooney goes to the States then they'll be losing their top scorer two seasons in a row and it could start to unravel for the Toffees.

You're right, they are eye watering sums being blown on recruiting and sacking management teams. Far better spent on players.

But Everton have £171m of income per season, plus in addition to that a billionaire owner.

My guess is that the fans of other clubs with aspirational (or entitled) fanbases, such as Leicester, Everton and West Ham, all witness the effective and relentless attacking football of Spurs, Liverpool and ManC, and want some of the same. On goals scored alone they tallied 106, 84 and 74 respectively. By contrast:

Everton 44
Leicester 56
West Ham 48

Despite having squads that cost many times that of the Albion for example. These clubs have an identity crisis where they think they're better than park the bus draws and 1-0 wins.

Easy 10 · May 16, 2018

seagulls4ever said:
To be fair, I have some sympathy with Everton fans - their football has been turgid. Allardyce saved them this season but he's not a good option for them going forward - he's not going to change his ways.

I had far less sympathy with the goons who wanted Martinez out after he achieved their highest ever PL points tally the previous season paying attacking football, and guided them to two cup semi finals the season he was sacked (12th in the league).

Do you remember the football under Hughton when he arrived that January and kept us up ? It was so turgid that we actually had SOME posters on here wanting him binned off that summer. Look how that turned out.

Allardyce inherited a disjointed, dispirited squad of bang-average players at Everton, and his mission was to keep them up. Which he did, in the end at a canter. Everton fans are grizzling that they didn't achieve it by playing slick passing football, well boo bloody hoo. I have zero sympathy.

Maybe if (like Hughton) he'd been kept on and allowed to start assembling his own squad, and begin a season from scratch rather than firefighting at the arse-end of the League under pressure to stay up, they perhaps they might have seen a better team emerge under him, playing better football.

Now they'll never know though, because they want someone with a foreign accent and a sharp suit, to play "the Everton way".

I have zero sympathy, and I hope it goes disastrously wrong. Because that would be very, very funny.

Worried Man Blues · May 16, 2018

It's really a shame that BFS wants to stay and build a team at a club. If he could get his head round bowling up and saving a club for the last two months of a season then get a whopping pay out, it would be a very lucrative scheme. If he stayed at a club longish term he would always get sacked eventually.

Weststander · May 16, 2018

Easy 10 said:
Do you remember the football under Hughton when he arrived that January and kept us up ? It was so turgid that we actually had SOME posters on here wanting him binned off that summer. Look how that turned out.

Allardyce inherited a disjointed, dispirited squad of bang-average players at Everton, and his mission was to keep them up. Which he did, in the end at a canter. Everton fans are grizzling that they didn't achieve it by playing slick passing football, well boo bloody hoo. I have zero sympathy.

Maybe if (like Hughton) he'd been kept on and allowed to start assembling his own squad, and begin a season from scratch rather than firefighting at the arse-end of the League under pressure to stay up, they perhaps they might have seen a better team emerge under him, playing better football.

Now they'll never know though, because they want someone with a foreign accent and a sharp suit, to play "the Everton way".

I have zero sympathy, and I hope it goes disastrously wrong. Because that would be very, very funny.

With Marco Silva or Fonseca, and say another £200m on players this summer, how do you see the Toffees doing next season?

Triggaaar · May 16, 2018

Easy 10 said:
Look, we could go round in circles like this all day (well, we pretty much have). But the point is, you said he was "barely sacked".

I can't believe you're arguing about this. You know what barely means, right? And you're arguing that point? That wasn't even the point that was being discussed, we were discussing whether he'd done wrong or not.

seagulls4ever · May 16, 2018

Easy 10 said:
Do you remember the football under Hughton when he arrived that January and kept us up ? It was so turgid that we actually had SOME posters on here wanting him binned off that summer. Look how that turned out.

Allardyce inherited a disjointed, dispirited squad of bang-average players at Everton, and his mission was to keep them up. Which he did, in the end at a canter. Everton fans are grizzling that they didn't achieve it by playing slick passing football, well boo bloody hoo. I have zero sympathy.

Maybe if (like Hughton) he'd been kept on and allowed to start assembling his own squad, and begin a season from scratch rather than firefighting at the arse-end of the League under pressure to stay up, they perhaps they might have seen a better team emerge under him, playing better football.

Now they'll never know though, because they want someone with a foreign accent and a sharp suit, to play "the Everton way".

I have zero sympathy, and I hope it goes disastrously wrong. Because that would be very, very funny.

It's not comparable. Everton are a far bigger club than we are, and quite rightly their expectations are set higher (both in terms of results and quality of play). Also, Allardyce has a history of getting his teams to play turgid football. It's pragmatic, but it's not what Everton fans want. I doubt he's going to suddenly change his ways after all these years due to fan pressure. He gave interviews where he said he was happy with the quality of football that Everton had produced in certain games, quite contrary to what the fans could see with their eyes. Football's about entertainment after all. Hughton had a good record in the Championship and was the highest calibre of manager we could have expected to attract - and he turned out to be the perfect fit.

People like Rodgers, Martinez, Ranieri - no sympathy for fans.

People like Hughes, Allardyce, Pulis - sympathy for fans.

Easy 10 · May 16, 2018

Weststander said:
With Marco Silva or Fonseca, and say another £200m on players this summer, how do you see the Toffees doing next season?

I don't overly rate what Silva has done so far in this country, so I think he's still a bit of a punt (I said punt).

Fonseca has had 4 clubs in 4 years, 3 of them in Portugal (one of which binned him off) and he's just won the League with Shakhtar - but then they're basically the Celtic of Ukraine, they win it every year regardless who's in charge. Its another foreigner though, so he MUST be good I suppose.

Would giving either of those blokes £200m to throw around get Everton any higher than 8th ? Personally I don't think so. Everton will still be mid-table at best IMO, very possibly worse being as you don't really know how Silva or Fonseca would get on. Everton fans seem convinced its the way to go though, so lets see how this all plays out.

Easy 10 · May 16, 2018

Triggaaar said:
I can't believe you're arguing about this. You know what barely means, right? And you're arguing that point? That wasn't even the point that was being discussed, we were discussing whether he'd done wrong or not.

We were discussing whether what he'd done was worthy of being a sackable offence. I reckon no, you reckon yes, then you said he was "barely sacked", which I disagreed with.

Anyway, I'm officially bored of the whole subject now, as I'm sure everyone else is. Agree to disagree. Move on.

Easy 10 · May 16, 2018

seagulls4ever said:
It's not comparable. Everton are a far bigger club than we are, and quite rightly their expectations are set higher (both in terms of results and quality of play). Also, Allardyce has a history of getting his teams to play turgid football. It's pragmatic, but it's not what Everton fans want. I doubt he's going to suddenly change his ways after all these years due to fan pressure. He gave interviews where he said he was happy with the quality of football that Everton had produced in certain games, quite contrary to what the fans could see with their eyes. Football's about entertainment after all. Hughton had a good record in the Championship and was the highest calibre of manager we could have expected to attract - and he turned out to be the perfect fit.

People like Rodgers, Martinez, Ranieri - no sympathy for fans.

People like Hughes, Allardyce, Pulis - sympathy for fans.

I hear what you are saying, but there is such a sense of entitlement with some fans. "We want to finish in the top 6 and we want it with lots of free-flowing exciting entertaining football". They probably want the Moon on a stick as well.

Then when their team "entertains" its way down to 15th-16th (a-la Martinez as they couldn't defend for toffee, pardon the pun), they're soon howling for another replacement. And I kinda hope thats how this all pans out, when they get their new exotic trendy manager in the dugout for next season.

Triggaaar · May 16, 2018

Easy 10 said:
We were discussing whether what he'd done was worthy of being a sackable offence. I reckon no, you reckon yes

I'm not at all convinced it was a sackable offence (I don't know what his contract says about not putting English football in a bad light etc), but I do think what he was doing was dodgy, and you seem to be suggesting he hadn't done anything wrong at all (apart from be rude about Roy).

Triggaaar said:
The thing is, if Sam was the right man for the job, I'd rather they kept him on, it wasn't that big of a deal.

Easy 10 said:
then you said he was "barely sacked", which I disagreed with.

Barely sacked means that he was only just sacked. It doesn't mean he wasn't sacked. Not sure what there is to argue with there :shrug:

Anyway, I'm officially bored of the whole subject now, as I'm sure everyone else is. Agree to disagree. Move on.

Agreed.

seagulls4ever · May 16, 2018

Easy 10 said:
I hear what you are saying, but there is such a sense of entitlement with some fans. "We want to finish in the top 6 and we want it with lots of free-flowing exciting entertaining football". They probably want the Moon on a stick as well.

Then when their team "entertains" its way down to 15th-16th (a-la Martinez as they couldn't defend for toffee, pardon the pun), they're soon howling for another replacement. And I kinda hope thats how this all pans out, when they get their new exotic trendy manager in the dugout for next season.

Sure, but Martinez left them 12th in the table and reached two cup semi finals that season. The season prior to that he achieved their highest ever points total. Given that context, his sacking was a joke.

Weststander · May 16, 2018

Easy 10 said:
I hear what you are saying, but there is such a sense of entitlement with some fans. "We want to finish in the top 6 and we want it with lots of free-flowing exciting entertaining football". They probably want the Moon on a stick as well.

Then when their team "entertains" its way down to 15th-16th (a-la Martinez as they couldn't defend for toffee, pardon the pun), they're soon howling for another replacement. And I kinda hope thats how this all pans out, when they get their new exotic trendy manager in the dugout for next season.

When Hughton was mentioned this season in the media as being suitable for Everton and West Ham, apart from me wanting him to stay with us, on a human level I wouldn't want to see his inevitable mistreatment from their fans / Boards.

It was obvious that he'd stay with us. At age 59, and after his treatment from Mike Ashley and the Norwich fans, he knew where his bread was buttered.

Easy 10 · May 16, 2018

seagulls4ever said:
Sure, but Martinez left them 12th in the table and reached two cup semi finals that season. The season prior to that he achieved their highest ever points total. Given that context, his sacking was a joke.

Yep.

And yet still you had Everton fans paying for a plane with a "Time to go Roberto" banner flying over the ground, and groups of fans staging sit-in protests after games, demanding he be sacked.

Everton fans are pathetic. I hope they reap what they sow next season - they deserve it.

Weststander · May 16, 2018

seagulls4ever said:
Sure, but Martinez left them 12th in the table and reached two cup semi finals that season. The season prior to that he achieved their highest ever points total. Given that context, his sacking was a joke.

It looks like the growing number of home defeats was Martinez's undoing:

Incredible that it was just the 1 under Moyes in his last season.

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