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[Football] England 2018 World Cup Squad - No Hart, no Wilshere...



Pavilionaire

Pavilionaire

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
30,559
Weststander said:
Listening to the pundits and writers, the TAA inclusion is because:

1. Southgate's settled on a back 3 with Walker in it.

2. Trippier's the right wing back, with TAA as back up.

So not 3 right backs. Simple.
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Other pundits like Gary Neville and Jamie Carragher were endorsing Lewis Dunk whilst casting doubt on the merits of moving a right back into a centre back position.

I haven't got anything against TAA - he's had a brilliant season for Liverpool and progressed remarkably - but Liverpool also have Joe Gomez and Nathaniel Clyne, and I just fear another Luke Shaw scenario where we waste a squad place on a bloke who won't play and - ultimately - drift out of the top six and down the divisions.
 




Arkwright

Arkwright

Arkwright
Oct 26, 2010
2,789
Caterham, Surrey
Weststander said:
You're right. Kane, Vardy and Sterling are quality forwards. With no obligation whatsoever, their clubs managers choose them week after week, season after season, where they could easily drop them for others / buy elsewhere if they were average.

Anyone denigrating their quality either doesn't watch PL/CL football, or perhaps it's that age old chestnut of club rivalries/petty hates carrying on with England (past booing of Lampard, Ashley Cole, Barnes, Waddle, etc).
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I totally agree that the three strikers are quality however with the exception of Ali who in midfield has the creativity to set them up. The team seems to have a lot of graft but very little guile.
 


Pavilionaire

Pavilionaire

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
30,559
seagulls4ever said:
Now you're changing what you originally said (playing first team football) to being in the starting XI.

Anyone, those players get plenty of starts for their teams (despite injuries/suspensions).

Those you listed as not regulars (PL starts only):

Welbeck: 12
Delph: 21
Stones: 16
Lingard: 20
Rashford: 17

Average = 17.2

Those you listed as regulars (leaving out Jan arrivals):

Lacazette: 26
Fernandinho: 33
Gundogan: 15
B Silva: 15
D Silva: 28
De Bruyne: 36
Kompany: 17
Otamendi: 33
Mata: 23
Lukaku: 33

Average = 25.9

So a difference of about 9 appearances, which is not hugely different, at least not to the extent you are suggesting. Add Sterling, Walker etc and the average of starts of the English players increases.
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Man Utd's most used subs were Jesse Lingard and Marcus Rashford, Arsenal most used sub was Wellbeck, Stones only started because Kompany was injured and I don't think you'd find one City fan who have Delph in their starting XI.

By contrast, I'd be interested to know how many of the Germany squad are peripheral players for their clubs. I'm guessing that - as usual - the vast majority of their squad will have started 30+ league games for their clubs, which will explain why they perform with supreme confidence at these tournaments.
 


S

seagulls4ever

New member
Oct 2, 2003
4,338
Pavilionaire said:
Man Utd's most used subs were Jesse Lingard and Marcus Rashford, Arsenal most used sub was Wellbeck, Stones only started because Kompany was injured and I don't think you'd find one City fan who have Delph in their starting XI.

By contrast, I'd be interested to know how many of the Germany squad are peripheral players for their clubs. I'm guessing that - as usual - the vast majority of their squad will have started 30+ league games for their clubs, which will explain why they perform with supreme confidence at these tournaments.
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Stones started the season at centre back with Kompany. Stones struggled to get his place back after injury I think.

I mean, now you're just talking about different things anyway. You were wrong and now you're trying to make different points.
 


Pavilionaire

Pavilionaire

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
30,559
seagulls4ever said:
Stones started the season at centre back with Kompany. Stones struggled to get his place back after injury I think.

I mean, now you're just talking about different things anyway. You were wrong and now you're trying to make different points.
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It's not different points - it's the same point. England have too many peripheral players in their squad, they don't have enough regular 1st XI players who perform week in, week out at a high standard. John Stones is fortunate players have been injured because he'd be lucky to get on the bench if Kompany, Otamendi and Laporte were all fit.
 




Algernon

Algernon

Well-known member
Sep 9, 2012
2,962
Newmarket.
Welbeck is toilet.
Sterling is all speed, nothing without pace.
Lingard is..............well, Lingard is...........a Man Utd player who is nowhere near world class. His inclusion shows just what a shallow pool fish lips has been dipping his rod in.
We might just beat Panama.
We may just scrape a draw with Tunisia.
"no easy World Cup games" Says Sir David of Beckham.

Feel free to remind me of this post when they all score shedloads.
 


S

seagulls4ever

New member
Oct 2, 2003
4,338
While Welbeck is one of our backup forwards, Mauro Icardi (29 goals in 34 league games for Inter) has been left out of Argentina's squad.

Goalkeepers: Sergio Romero (Manchester United), Willy Caballero (Chelsea), Franco Armani (River Plate).

Defenders: Gabriel Mercado (Sevilla), Federico Fazio (Roma), Nicolas Otamendi (Manchester City), Marcos Rojo (Manchester United), Nicolas Taglafico (Ajax), Javier Mascherano (Hebei Fortune), Marcos Acuna (Sporting Lisbon), Cristian Ansaldi (Torino).

Midfielders: Ever Banega (Sevilla), Lucas Biglia (AC Milan), Angel Di Maria, Giovani Lo Celso (both Paris St-Germain), Manuel Lanzini (West Ham), Cristian Pavon (Boca Juniors), Maximiliano Meza (Independiente), Eduardo Salvio (Benfica).

Forwards: Lionel Messi (Barcelona), Gonzalo Higuain, Paulo Dybala (both Juventus), Sergio Aguero (Manchester City).
 


K

Kinky Gerbil

Im The Scatman
NSC Patron
Jul 16, 2003
57,881
hassocks
seagulls4ever said:
While Welbeck is one of our backup forwards, Mauro Icardi (29 goals in 34 league games for Inter) has been left out of Argentina's squad.

Goalkeepers: Sergio Romero (Manchester United), Willy Caballero (Chelsea), Franco Armani (River Plate).

Defenders: Gabriel Mercado (Sevilla), Federico Fazio (Roma), Nicolas Otamendi (Manchester City), Marcos Rojo (Manchester United), Nicolas Taglafico (Ajax), Javier Mascherano (Hebei Fortune), Marcos Acuna (Sporting Lisbon), Cristian Ansaldi (Torino).

Midfielders: Ever Banega (Sevilla), Lucas Biglia (AC Milan), Angel Di Maria, Giovani Lo Celso (both Paris St-Germain), Manuel Lanzini (West Ham), Cristian Pavon (Boca Juniors), Maximiliano Meza (Independiente), Eduardo Salvio (Benfica).

Forwards: Lionel Messi (Barcelona), Gonzalo Higuain, Paulo Dybala (both Juventus), Sergio Aguero (Manchester City).
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The strikers are outrageous.

But the rest of the squad is pretty meh.
 






Simster

Simster

"the man's an arse"
Jul 7, 2003
54,166
Surrey
Stumpy Tim said:
Agree with that. Lanzini wouldn't get in the England squad for starters
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Two of their 3 keepers aren't even first choice at their club sides and they have a defender from Sporting Lisbon, which is a bit like picking a Celtic player because they've had a good season. Strikers aside, they look weaker than England.
 


sydney

sydney

tinky ****in winky
Jul 11, 2003
17,750
town full of eejits
Simster said:
Two of their 3 keepers aren't even first choice at their club sides and they have a defender from Sporting Lisbon, which is a bit like picking a Celtic player because they've had a good season. Strikers aside, they look weaker than England.
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are you effing serious ...?? our midfield is pitiful ...!! we will not score 5 or more goals in this event and we will be out in the first qualifying round at best ....glad to be proven wrong as always .......our squad just looks piss weak to me .
 






Simster

Simster

"the man's an arse"
Jul 7, 2003
54,166
Surrey
sydney said:
are you effing serious ...?? our midfield is pitiful ...!! we will not score 5 or more goals in this event and we will be out in the first qualifying round at best ....glad to be proven wrong as always .......our squad just looks piss weak to me .
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I didn't say it didn't. I said Argentina don't look any stronger except their strikers.

schmunk said:
There's little shame in being second choice to David De Gea or Thibaut Courtois.
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True, but picking 2 of 3 keepers who suffer from a lack of game time does seem a little desperate to me.
 






Easy 10

Easy 10

Brain dead MUG SHEEP
Jul 5, 2003
61,747
Location Location
sydney said:
are you effing serious ...?? our midfield is pitiful ...!! we will not score 5 or more goals in this event and we will be out in the first qualifying round at best ....glad to be proven wrong as always .......our squad just looks piss weak to me .
Click to expand...

How can being knocked out in the 1st round be a "best case" scenario ??

I'm confident we'll get out of the group with Belgium. And I think we'll have enough to just about take care of Poland / Colombia / Senegal / Japan in R2. We'll come to a sticky end in the QF of course, but I don't believe we're looking at an early exit this time. Romantic fool that I am.
 




K

Kinky Gerbil

Im The Scatman
NSC Patron
Jul 16, 2003
57,881
hassocks
sydney said:
are you effing serious ...?? our midfield is pitiful ...!! we will not score 5 or more goals in this event and we will be out in the first qualifying round at best ....glad to be proven wrong as always .......our squad just looks piss weak to me .
Click to expand...


Our midfield is certainly no worse than that.
 


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