[Albion] Are you OK with TB’s long term ambitions for the Albion?

Goldstone1976 · May 12, 2018

Bozza said:
Long before this season's fixtures were spat out of the computer, I speculated that we'd very possibly hit peak Albion with last season's promotion.

I'd also passed comment, last season, on West Brom who, back then, seemed to the very definition of a "going nowhere" mid-table club. Watching MotD, even when the big clubs came to town, The Hawthorns seemed far from full giving the impression that many of their fans simply couldn't be arsed with it any more. I suspect they'll find a Championship promotion tussle, should they find their feet down there, a lot more exciting than the PL grind.

However, this season has illustrated that even those clubs that had successfully found the middle ground between the big clubs and the relegation scrap, can find themselves in the dogfight to stay up and may well fail that challenge. So, I completely understand Bloom's stated ambition, as it's a very pragmatic approach to take.

However, I'd like to think we should be aiming to "do a Burnley". That's not to say Burnley are now perpetually safe from the drop - I'm sure they're not. But finishing as "best of the rest" and snatching a Europa Cup spot has to be the dream. It may well take a few seasons for that dream to become a realistic ambition, but I think that's what we have to be shooting for.

I’d agree with all of this, including your assessment of what the dream should now be.

Given TB’s recent musings on the Albion’s future, my sense is that he’d share that dream, but isn’t going to provide funding above and beyond that which is assessed to be needed to keep us in the PL (allowing for the fact that good recruitment, management and a slice of luck is also required).

Last season = “Peak Albion”? Could well be the case, unless we get lucky.

Thunder Bolt · May 12, 2018

n1 gull said:
Someone suggested a banner wishing LFC good luck I've just thrown up in my mouth

I think GB needs to be a bit more specific. Colleagues, his mates down the pub, someone winding him up?

In answer to the OP, forever means staying in this division and being competitive. Sometimes like Leicester you just need momentum and a bit of luck.
We're never going to be one of the big rich boys, unless Tony sells out to the Russians or Chinese, and he isn't going to do that.

Build on what we've got is the way forward.

Guinness Boy · May 12, 2018

Goldstone1976 said:
Based on what?

Twice in the last month, TB has said that he thinks the goal will be to stay up “forever”. He’s also said he hopes for a(nother) good cup run and would like to hope that we can finish higher up the league - but a goal of avoiding relegation “forever” does not carry the same cost implications as incrementally improving our strength over a decade.

Based on that's the only way I see that it's possible. It's simply too risky not to strengthen every season if we want to stay up "forever". TB's a shrewd gambler, not a Hail Mary guy.

Triggaaar · May 12, 2018

Goldstone1976 said:
How content will you be if we have stayed in the PL for 5 years for the following season’s goal to remain “stay in the PL” for the next 5 years too?

I feel that you've misunderstood him:
"Nope - surely there’ll come a point when we should try for more"

We will try for more every season. We will try and finish as high as we can every season. It's not like we'd get to 40 points and the players all get a holiday. He's just highlighting that even clubs like Everton could go down, so we shouldn't lose sight of how difficult it can be to rack up the points.

This way, if we have a good season one year, and the next year we're fighting relegation, it shouldn't feel alien and we should be up for the fight.

Guinness Boy · May 12, 2018

n1 gull said:
Someone suggested a banner wishing LFC good luck I've just thrown up in my mouth

Thunder Bolt said:
I think GB needs to be a bit more specific. Colleagues, his mates down the pub, someone winding him up?

A serious suggestion made to a friend last weekend when we were in the pub and then posted on the Brighton Away Days Facebook group the day after with loads of replies, most negative.

Goldstone1976 · May 12, 2018

Triggaaar said:
I feel that you've misunderstood him:
"Nope - surely there’ll come a point when we should try for more"

We will try for more every season. We will try and finish as high as we can every season. It's not like we'd get to 40 points and the players all get a holiday. He's just highlighting that even clubs like Everton could go down, so we shouldn't lose sight of how difficult it can be to rack up the points.

This way, if we have a good season one year, and the next year we're fighting relegation, it shouldn't feel alien and we should be up for the fight.

“Try” to finish as high as we can? Yes, of course. Provide additional funds to try to finish above, say, 12th (allowing some contingency)? That’s where my doubt is.

As my thinking has evolved, I now wish the poll option had been “Nope - surely there’ll come a time when funding should be increased a bit to make a higher finish/better chance of a cup win more likely”... or something.

Goldstone1976 · May 12, 2018

Guinness Boy said:
A serious suggestion texted to a friend last weekend when we were in the pub and then posted on the Brighton Away Days Facebook group the day after with hundreds of replies, most negative.

View attachment 96843

FFS

Don’t get me wrong, I WOULD prefer to see Liverpool win it than RM (again), but a banner? :nono:

Triggaaar · May 12, 2018

Guinness Boy said:
I thought we'd got over the initial awe of being here and then I hear people suggesting that we should maybe have a banner tomorrow wishing luck to Liverpool in the Champions League.

Surely that was a wind up? If not, said individuals should be put in their place. Individuals being the key point, I'm sure that's not how most of us feel.

Secondly I offer exactly what my Cardiff mate Sam said about Stoke this season. "Relegation will do them good. Shake the place up a bit, give them a chance to be the big boys again".

The big boys again? They weren't the big boys in the Championship anyway. I seem to remember fighting them for relegation in 2003. We went down, they stayed up. They were then a mid table side until they had one good year (don't think they even made the playoffs before that).

Goldstone1976 · May 12, 2018

Guinness Boy said:
Based on that's the only way I see that it's possible. It's simply too risky not to strengthen every season if we want to stay up "forever". TB's a shrewd gambler, not a Hail Mary guy.

I think I’ve allowed a mis-representation of his use of “forever” to be perpetuated on this thread. It’s not “my goal is to stay in the PL forever”! It’s “for each season that we do manage to stay up (and it’s likely that at some point we’ll be relegated), the next season’s goal will also be to stay up. This situation will remain the same forever”.

Bob'n'weave · May 12, 2018

My perspective on TB's 'forever' is that it makes sense in relation to his 'dynasty' comment when we clinched promotion at the Amex against Wigan. No problems with his vision, drive, commitment and business savvy. Becoming a Blackburn or Everton is achievable in the next two seasons. I will be happy when we are one of those teams who people would be surprised to see at the bottom end of the table and not surprised to see in the top 7. Carry on Tony.

Justice · May 12, 2018

After watching Derby Fulham you can see how far we have come. If we played either team I believe we would have won comfortably with our current squad. We have a top manager and with a few quality additions I'm looking forward already to rhe progression over the next few seasons.

Goldstone1976 · May 12, 2018

Bob'n'weave said:
My perspective on TB's 'forever' is that it makes sense in relation to his 'dynasty' comment when we clinched promotion at the Amex against Wigan. No problems with his vision, drive, commitment and business savvy. Becoming a Blackburn or Everton is achievable in the next two seasons. I will be happy when we are one of those teams who people would be surprised to see at the bottom end of the table and not surprised to see in the top 7. Carry on Tony.

Yep - this.

I’m more than happy with this as a goal. I wonder if all fans will be?

Also - what about players, CH, PB? Will they also be happy to be part of a team that is likely (but not guaranteed) to stay in the PL in 5 years’ time, or will they want something more?

bobbysmith01 · May 12, 2018

Justice said:
After watching Derby Fulham you can see how far we have come. If we played either team I believe we would have won comfortably with our current squad. We have a top manager and with a few quality additions I'm looking forward already to rhe progression over the next few seasons.

Thought Fulham had a lot of potential and Derby were like Derby have been over the past few years, ok but nothing exciting. On Tony’s ambition, happy to improve each year, after Hereford we are in dreamland.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Triggaaar · May 12, 2018

Goldstone1976 said:
“Try” to finish as high as we can? Yes, of course. Provide additional funds to try to finish above, say, 12th (allowing some contingency)? That’s where my doubt is.

I think you're jumping to conclusions. We are still a new side, we would still expect to be in a relegation scrap next season, and Tony probably doesn't want to get ahead of himself. Bit silly him talking of big ambitions now when we need to ready ourselves for another fight next season.

If we do stay up for some years, I think the playing budget will reflect that, and we'll aim higher - but we'll do it while still knowing that the most important thing is to stay up, because that's what brings in the money to keep us going long term.

Goldstone1976 · May 12, 2018

Triggaaar said:
I think you're jumping to conclusions. We are still a new side, we would still expect to be in a relegation scrap next season, and Tony probably doesn't want to get ahead of himself. Bit silly him talking of big ambitions now when we need to ready ourselves for another fight next season.

If we do stay up for some years, I think the playing budget will reflect that, and we'll aim higher - but we'll do it while still knowing that the most important thing is to stay up, because that's what brings in the money to keep us going long term.

Fair enough - but see my reply (post 22) to a similar point made earlier.

Guinness Boy · May 12, 2018

Goldstone1976 said:
I think I’ve allowed a mis-representation of his use of “forever” to be perpetuated on this thread. It’s not “my goal is to stay in the PL forever”! It’s “for each season that we do manage to stay up (and it’s likely that at some point we’ll be relegated), the next season’s goal will also be to stay up. This situation will remain the same forever”.

Which is different, yes. So maybe my comments about this also being the way the club see it are wrong. However, if your goal is to stay up then strengthening gradually and intelligently has to be the way forward, and it seems to be the way Hughton likes to do it too.

pasty · May 12, 2018

Dale Jasper said:
This.
The one blot on last Friday was when they played ‘the great escape’. It wasn’t a great escape , we stayed up with two games to spare. We were never in the relegation zone.
Encouragingly, the team have massively upped their game In matches against the top six.
Now it’s for the club and the fans to drop that small time inferiority complex that’s not in line with being a respected premier league club.

Completely agree. The Great Escape annoyed me rather a lot more than it should have done. Made us look a bit noddy in my opinion.

Triggaaar · May 12, 2018

Goldstone1976 said:
So you think that TB’s use of “forever” is primarily a ploy to get us to remain realistic for a while, and should not be taken literally? “Forever” doesn’t mean forever?

Maybe so.

I think it's more like he was thinking of Everton. They've spent big, they were aiming high, but they were reminded of how tough the PL can be when you're making changes, and even they had to accept that the first priority is to stay up. Stay up and you can build and go again next season.

Billy the Fish · May 12, 2018

Almost every club had a glass ceiling. Ours is that if we get too good the bigger clubs will buy or best players, this is exactly what happened to Southampton over the last two years. We will most likely have to constantly rebuild and when that happens we'll always be one bad transfer window away from trouble.

I remember a couple of years ago talking to a friend, who is STH at spurs, about how difficult is was for them to break into the top 4. If they got too good then Real Madrid or Utd just nicked their best players and they were back too square one.

We will never be part of the elite group. The stars might align every now and again like they have for Burnley this year, but it's equally as likely that we have a bad transfer window and get relegated.

All we can do is enjoy the ride.

LamieRobertson · May 12, 2018

Whatever TB says is ok with me...the mans been brilliant for BHA

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[Albion] Are you OK with TB’s long term ambitions for the Albion?

Are you content for the Albion’s goal to remain “stay up” - forever?

Yep - realistic, and that’s ok

Nope - surely there’ll come a point when we should try for more

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