[Albion] Paul Kitson made bankrupt

Simster said:

My colleague and I go into bookies daily in order to match bet (by and large, I'm not gambling) and it is absolutely astonishing how you do see the same dropout types in the same bookies every single day, usually jizzing their wages on the dogs. I can't help thinking that part of the reason that these types are so large in number is that these people simply haven't stopped to understand how the bookies make their money. They are all doing tri-casts and lucky 15s for pennies (that then add up) which are by far and away the most lucrative bets for the bookies.

I find myself on the fence over the whole gambling issue. I have an addictive personality so I can well understand how people get into this horrible downward spiral. On the other hand, it is relatively straight forward to make a money out of bookies (even shops) by rinsing them for their offers, but not if you're just going to play into their hands. Yesterday and the day before, Betfred and William Hill both offered tidy arbs which yielded us £20 each, and Paddy Power shops have a money back 2nd offer on every meeting. Today there is a high likelihood of us making a tidy profit out of the 3:40 at Punchestown for this reason. Matched betters will know why if they look at the odds.

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Most of that is like a foreign language to me. I also have an addictive personality and found it incredibly difficult to stop smoking.

Simster said:

My colleague and I go into bookies daily in order to match bet (by and large, I'm not gambling) and it is absolutely astonishing how you do see the same dropout types in the same bookies every single day, usually jizzing their wages on the dogs. I can't help thinking that part of the reason that these types are so large in number is that these people simply haven't stopped to understand how the bookies make their money. They are all doing tri-casts and lucky 15s for pennies (that then add up) which are by far and away the most lucrative bets for the bookies.

I find myself on the fence over the whole gambling issue. I have an addictive personality so I can well understand how people get into this horrible downward spiral. On the other hand, it is relatively straight forward to make a money out of bookies (even shops) by rinsing them for their offers, but not if you're just going to play into their hands. Yesterday and the day before, Betfred and William Hill both offered tidy arbs which yielded us £20 each, and Paddy Power shops have a money back 2nd offer on every meeting. Today there is a high likelihood of us making a tidy profit out of the 3:40 at Punchestown for this reason. Matched betters will know why if they look at the odds.

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As someone who spent far too long from the age of 15 hanging around in Ladbrokes at Fiveways, I get that Bookies used to be like a social club - It was a friendly, smokey, largely horse racing environment interspersed with dog racing and not a virtual horse or motor race in sight. It was a British legion without a bar when I was supposed to be studying for my GCSE's and A levels. Fast forward to 2018 and the shops are now designed around the FOBT's and wouldn't need to exist without the machines given that most trade is online. The clientele is a mile away from the old boy with a tip on the Gary Moore horse, now largely glazed over expressions whilst pressing the go button on the roulette wheel before the inevitable fall out when the wrong number comes in. I do despair when I watch someone smash their last weeks wages in their lunch hour but then I fully recognise that the free bet here, the money back if 2nd offer there are funded by the engine room of the bookmakers - The FOBT. Id' like to say I want these banned but then I know I'd be poorer if they were. Arthur does have a point. People with addictive personalities will find ways to lose money. As a kid there was a guy on the fruit machine who seemed to live there along with the people who blew their wages on horses or dogs before FOBT were about. The only difference now is that you can blow higher volumes quicker.

seagulls4ever said:

The point is the easy access to FOBTs and the amount of money that people very quickly lose on them. People see them, have a punt, lose some money, try to make it back, and before they know it they've lost all their wages. If the limits are significantly lowered, they have far less appeal, and far less potential for the chasing element to kick in. But of course that would mean less money for the bookmakers based on other's misery, which is why there's industry pressure to resist the limits.

Different gambling situations work differently too, so it doesn't necessarily equate that someone desperate for a punt, if they can't do so at a FOBT, will go somewhere else and lose just as much money.

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Its even easier to pick up your mobile phone and spend £250 a spin on Rainbow Riches or similar. Why aren't the fun police screaming about that?

seagulls4ever said:

The exploitation of the many to benefit a few

At least you appear to understand that hundreds of thousands of addicts are providing lots of income for the industry.

Anyway, gambling outlets would still exist.

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The gambling industry in this country employs thousands and contributes billions to the national purse. On the whole its not dangerous or damaging to the majority. But don't let the truth get in the way of your agenda.

seagulls4ever said:

Yes, it's very obvious you have vested interests.

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Of course I do. But taking my corporate hat off and putting my punter one on my opinion would still be the same and always will be.

seagulls4ever said:

GAMSTOP very obviously has huge benefits for problem gamblers. If they self-exclude from all online betting companies, where else are they to go apart from physical shops? Online betting and betting in person in a shop is very different as well, such that they aren't necessarily linked with easy other due to different situation-dependent cues, meaning it doesn't automatically mean they'll go to shops if they can't bet online. The ease of access of online betting is a huge problem, and GAMSTOP will be of massive benefit to problem gamblers, if they're made aware of it.

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I agree but as MOSES has proved its also a perfect opportunity for chancers to try it on creating a huge admin headache for those funding the scheme.

seagulls4ever said:

What's that got to do with addiction?

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Nothing, but it the same theory. Oh I'm in debt because the bank lent me money I can't afford to pay back.....must be the banks fault!

seagulls4ever said:

The analogy doesn't quite work, but in any case, no one's said betting companies should stop allowing people to bet.

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Of course it does. 99% of pub goers don't have an issue with drink in the same way 99% of punters don't have an issue with gambling.

seagulls4ever said:

You might see addiction, but you clearly don't understand it. People decide to have a gamble or take a drug (like many do) - they don't decide to become addicted. It's not their fault their brains are wired differently to those who don't become addicted. Once they are addicted, giving up is difficult, because of very real cellular changes which take place in the brain. A big problem in overcoming addiction (despite them actually wanting to) is being exposed to addiction-related cues, such as gambling advertisements or social environments.

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No I don't. Nor do I want to. But I totally disagree its completely their own fault.

seagulls4ever said:

Above and beyond..

Yeah, I can tell you work in the industry. The big players do what's good for their image. They don't care about problem gamblers - of course not, as that's where a large chunk of their profits come from.

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What more do you want us to do? My company pays considerably more money than they have to to support these charities.

seagulls4ever said:

Erm, I believe smoking rates have dropped significantly over the years. How do you know banning advertisements hasn't had an affect on that?

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Total different ball game though isn't it. I find it odd these days to see anyone smoking a cigarette but you can't go 10ft without seeing someone vaping. And quite frankly the government have priced a lot of people out of smoking. Are you suggesting we should re-introduce gambling tax? Again the only loser would be the punter!

seagulls4ever said:

You obviously don't know much about the neuropsychological basis of addiction and how cues work to trigger relapse, in a sometimes environment-dependent manner. I explained it as simply as I could in this and in my previous post.

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Happy to admit you are right. As I mentioned above addiction is a terrible thing but that person isn't a victim they are a product of their own mistakes. I'm not saying we shouldn't help these people but they need to take responsibility for their own actions.

seagulls4ever said:

Perhaps working in the industry you've become desensitised to gambling addiction.

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Cobblers, its very sad and I feel for the people. But it is their own fault.

seagulls4ever said:

Working in the industry doesn't give you a scientific understanding addiction, which you evidently don't have - so "grow an educated opinion".

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No it doesn't you are right. My comment about you educating yourself was towards FOBT. You seemed to think banning them would stop people having a punt in the same way people think banning happy hour will stop pissheads getting slashed up. The transition to digital will eventually be the death of the retail outlets but why try and speed that process up when their is a much bigger less regulated market to take its place.

Arthur said:

You seemed to think banning them would stop people having a punt in the same way people think banning happy hour will stop pissheads getting slashed up. The transition to digital will eventually be the death of the retail outlets but why try and speed that process up when their is a much bigger less regulated market to take its place.

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If you did ban FOBT in shops you would stop the casual person coming in losing £30 and then chasing it, also it may stop people just trying it which can lead some people down a terrible road.
I had an issue with the FOBT a while ago and went to a few GA meetings, some of the stories were horrifying, you just don't realise the far reaching effects of gambling it is a hidden epidemic if you ask me.

At least when I gambled it was cash I was earning daily fitting and before I was married and had a child, I only lost about 10k in total over two years. I made changes to my life and get my wages paid into my wife's account and I then get a weekly allowance, now that might sound mad or weak to some people, but I like it like that I show her my account every month and apart from lottery direct debit, and phone all that should be seen is pubs,football, records, nothing to hide anyway, what I am trying to say is no betting shops or apps dare show up on my account or phone, but there is still her wondering that £80 cash he drew out did he go down the bookies and put in the FOBT.
Banning them helps people like me, who as you point out are weak and can not help themselves and yes I have been aware that it has been wrong and I should know better, but I hate losing.....

The thing is, everybody knows that slots have an EV of under 100% (it tends to vary between 94 and 96%) so why people use slots is just baffling.

My biggest issue with FOBT is that the odds they provide are absolutely GASH. They are nowhere near what they have priced it up on the screens (although I appreciate there are far more markets available) and certainly nowhere near exchange odds. For this reason alone, you are guaranteed to lose in the long term using FOBT.

I'm surprised to hear this. I thought his Mrs had made a fortune out of those flowery handbags and other girlie tat.

Psychobilly freakout said:

If you did ban FOBT in shops you would stop the casual person coming in losing £30 and then chasing it, also it may stop people just trying it which can lead some people down a terrible road.
I had an issue with the FOBT a while ago and went to a few GA meetings, some of the stories were horrifying, you just don't realise the far reaching effects of gambling it is a hidden epidemic if you ask me.

At least when I gambled it was cash I was earning daily fitting and before I was married and had a child, I only lost about 10k in total over two years. I made changes to my life and get my wages paid into my wife's account and I then get a weekly allowance, now that might sound mad or weak to some people, but I like it like that I show her my account every month and apart from lottery direct debit, and phone all that should be seen is pubs,football, records, nothing to hide anyway, what I am trying to say is no betting shops or apps dare show up on my account or phone, but there is still her wondering that £80 cash he drew out did he go down the bookies and put in the FOBT.
Banning them helps people like me, who as you point out are weak and can not help themselves and yes I have been aware that it has been wrong and I should know better, but I hate losing.....

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Doesn't sound mad or weak at all pal. Sounds like you identified the issue and did something to rectify it. Fair play to you.

He used to get so much shit off us for the crime of erm, suffering injuries a lot (Did Vicente?) but at the time he was one of the best strikers ever to play for us! I loved him