[News] Hither Green 'burglar' stabbing: Man, 78, arrested

btnbelle · Apr 6, 2018

Thunder Bolt said:
But you didn't kill him, nor were you attacked, so it is different.

I did not kill him. It is your assumption that I was not attacked. However, I was not physically attacked but very deeply emotionally so.

We share that experience, Thunderbolt. I imagine it needs no explaining.

You view alongside others is that of following the law as it is. My view is that I would not be disrespected by the law through interrogation. My account would be clear from my lawyer. if arrested. My view is that the law needs to change.

btnbelle · Apr 6, 2018

Thunder Bolt said:
This may not be appropriate, but it is funny.

The homeowner came home to find a burglar in his house, stark naked in his bath.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-43670774

Thank you for sharing that.

Thunder Bolt · Apr 6, 2018

btnbelle said:
I did not kill him. It is your assumption that I was not attacked. However, I was not physically attacked but very deeply emotionally so.

We share that experience, Thunderbolt. I imagine it needs no explaining.

You view alongside others is that of following the law as it is. My view is that I would not be disrespected by the law through interrogation. My account would be clear from my lawyer. if arrested. My view is that the law needs to change.

I do not understand how questioning or interrogation as you intrepret it, is disrepectful.

The dictionary version of disrespectful is discourteous, rude, impolite, uncivil, unmannerly, ill-mannered, bad-mannered, ungracious, irreverent, inconsiderate;

The only one I could see fitting in with your opinion is inconsiderate, but as you know, the sooner the details are given to the police, the quicker they can act on it.

btnbelle · Apr 6, 2018

Thunder Bolt said:
I do not understand how questioning or interrogation as you intrepret it, is disrepectful.

The dictionary version of disrespectful is discourteous, rude, impolite, uncivil, unmannerly, ill-mannered, bad-mannered, ungracious, irreverent, inconsiderate;

The only one I could see fitting in with your opinion is inconsiderate, but as you know, the sooner the details are given to the police, the quicker they can act on it.

It is inconsiderate to arrest a law abiding person who finds themselves a victim of crime and in need of defending themselves. Arrest happens at the police station. A conversation happens at home and treats the person as the victim and not a criminal.

Edit, I mean questioning after arrest happens at police station.

Thunder Bolt · Apr 6, 2018

btnbelle said:
It is inconsiderate to arrest a law abiding person who finds themselves a victim of crime and in need of defending themselves. Arrest happens at the police station. A conversation happens at home and treats the person as the victim and not a criminal.

Edit, I mean questioning after arrest happens at police station.

How do you establish that the person is a victim unless questioned? Yes, he was a victim of burglary, but a man died. A different crime and a different victim.

btnbelle · Apr 6, 2018

Thunder Bolt said:
How do you establish that the person is a victim unless questioned? Yes, he was a victim of burglary, but a man died. A different crime and a different victim.

Well I guess you see it as a crime. I see it as a heroic act to defend oneself. The burglar is no victim to me.

It is established when the police arrive and ask what happened here. Yes they investigate but don't arrest until they have some proof you have done wrong. And no I don't consider it wrong to defend yourself.

mejonaNO12 aka riskit · Apr 6, 2018

btnbelle said:
If you have done nothing wrong then the evidence speaks volumes. .

As does your mouth. Use that.

mejonaNO12 aka riskit · Apr 6, 2018

btnbelle said:
It is established when the police arrive and ask what happened here.

"What happened here"

"She slipped and fell down the stairs. The reason her purse is in my hand is that as she fell it flew into the air and would have landed on her baby so I caught it"

"Well sir. This all seems in order. Thank you for your co-operation"

btnbelle · Apr 6, 2018

mejonaNO12 aka riskit said:
As does your mouth. Use that.

I am happy to use my mouth at home just not when I am being treated like a criminal.

btnbelle · Apr 6, 2018

mejonaNO12 aka riskit said:
"What happened here"

"She slipped and fell down the stairs. The reason her purse is in my hand is that as she fell it flew into the air and would have landed on her baby so I caught it"

"Well sir. This all seems in order. Thank you for your co-operation"

Please let me know you are not a police officer, so I can sleep soundly tonight. :lolol:

Thunder Bolt · Apr 6, 2018

btnbelle said:
Well I guess you see it as a crime. I see it as a heroic act to defend oneself. The burglar is no victim to me.

It is established when the police arrive and ask what happened here. Yes they investigate but don't arrest until they have some proof you have done wrong. And no I don't consider it wrong to defend yourself.

The Tony Martin case proves otherwise. He was in his own home, sitting on the stairs.

Perfidious Albion · Apr 6, 2018

Without reading all previous pages, this seems relevant.

"A Ministry of Justice spokeswoman said: "While we cannot comment on specific cases, our sympathies are with householders who have to defend themselves when intruders break in.
That's why we strengthened the law in 2013 to give householders greater protection from intruders.

"Those changes make it clear that if a householder believes their life or the lives of their family are in danger, and they act in self-defence, they would not ordinarily be convicted of an offence."

That was a newspaper quote. NB . The burglar deserved what he got, in my book.

btnbelle · Apr 6, 2018

Thunder Bolt said:
The Tony Martin case proves otherwise. He was in his own home, sitting on the stairs.

Tony Martin was no danger to the public at large.

The evidence can be looked at without harassment of the innocent.

Thunder Bolt · Apr 6, 2018

btnbelle said:
Tony Martin was no danger to the public at large.

The evidence can be looked at without harassment of the innocent.

It doesn't matter about danger to the public. He shot two males in the back after waiting for them. That is murder.

We still don't know how the burglar died. Pure conjecture, but he could have been stabbed in the back.

Both you and I saw the burglars run away from us, and the police assured me that most do, when they're discovered.

Springal · Apr 6, 2018

Not charged. Fuss over nothing

brightn'ove · Apr 6, 2018

Facing no further action, what a surprise

Thunder Bolt · Apr 6, 2018

Perfidious Albion said:
Without reading all previous pages, this seems relevant.

"A Ministry of Justice spokeswoman said: "While we cannot comment on specific cases, our sympathies are with householders who have to defend themselves when intruders break in.
That's why we strengthened the law in 2013 to give householders greater protection from intruders.

"Those changes make it clear that if a householder believes their life or the lives of their family are in danger, and they act in self-defence, they would not ordinarily be convicted of an offence."

That was a newspaper quote. NB . The burglar deserved what he got, in my book.

Quite right but an important word in that quote. It has to be investigated, and not be harassment.

Thunder Bolt · Apr 6, 2018

brightn'ove said:
Facing no further action, what a surprise

Fantastic news. I'm really pleased for him and well done to the police for completing their investigations so quickly.

edna krabappel · Apr 6, 2018

btnbelle said:
Tony Martin was no danger to the public at large.

Tony Martin was a very different case indeed: a man with some mental health and/or learning difficulties, who was in possession of an illegal, unlicensed shotgun. That firearm alone was enough to mean he was likely to be locked up. If you or I are found in possession of an unlicensed firearm, we go to prison.

I'm entirely lacking in sympathy for the burglar he shot and killed, as he made the choice to break into the farm, but you can't possibly say with any certainty that Martin wouldn't have been a danger to others at any stage. If his health had continued to deteriorate- and there was plenty of evidence that he wasn't the sort to engage with support services- then he could have ended up shooting somebody who happened to walk across his land, for example, or a bunch of local kids playing Knock Down Ginger and annoying him. It's all could have, would have, of course. But I don't think his situation bears great comparison with this week's case.

Perhaps all the online petitions urging the law to be tightened to protect householders (oh look! It does! Already!) will be taken down now....

happypig · Apr 6, 2018

happypig said:
I'm willing to bet the old lad isn't charged.

brightn'ove said:
Facing no further action, what a surprise

[Walks away from thread, hat at a jaunty angle, whistling nonchalantly]

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