[News] Two shootings in north London - 17yo girl dead

Dr Bandler · Apr 6, 2018

Today we hear that there have been seven more stabbings in London.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-london-43659952?__twitter_impression=true

I honestly believe that the time for theoretical debate is over. This is almost a national emergency and people, especially the government, need to formulate an urgent action plan - both short-term and long-term.

So depressing.

Dr Bandler · Apr 6, 2018

Quotes

From another BBC piece, here is a quote from a surgeon who treats injuries from stabbing and gunshot wounds in London:

"We've seen a normalisation in attitudes toward violence globally - and also we take offence about pretty much everything. If we look at people now - things escalate on social media now about absolutely nothing. People now, when placed in conflict situations, react in a much more expressive manner. And if people who are running countries react in that manner, it's a signal for everyone to react that way.
Members of the public who are not involved in gangs or violence let these things pass without comment. You get the society you deserve. If you ignore violence and ignore offending as a member of the public, your society will change.
We are all responsible for what is happening right now."

A sobering call to action for us all.

AmexRuislip · Apr 6, 2018

Dr Bandler said:
Today we hear that there have been more stabbings in London.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-london-43659952?__twitter_impression=true

I honestly believe that the time for theoretical debate is over. This is almost a national emergency and people, especially the government, need to formulate an urgent action plan - both short-term and long-term.

So depressing.

It's pretty random TBF, but one incident does seem to create a lot of copycat crimes.
The media doesn't help in sensationalising these incidents, I'm not talking about the news stations.

carlzeiss · Apr 7, 2018

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/cri...bournes-death-in-sick-instagram-a3807166.html

Tanesha Melbourne shooting: gang claims responsibility for Tottenham 'drive-by' in sick #NPK Instagram posts

Gang brags over victim's death in posts filled with laughing emojis

Two Professors · Apr 7, 2018

London Mayor Sadiq Khan has broken his deafening silence to call for the police to use 'targeted,intelligence led stop and search'.Waste of space and oxygen.

GT49er · Apr 7, 2018

Dr Bandler said:
Today we hear that there have been seven more stabbings in London.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-london-43659952?__twitter_impression=true

I honestly believe that the time for theoretical debate is over. This is almost a national emergency and people, especially the government, need to formulate an urgent action plan - both short-term and long-term.

So depressing.

'An urgent action plan'............to do what, exactly?

Two Professors · Apr 7, 2018

Not been one of your best plans,Your Worship,has it?

Dr Bandler · Apr 7, 2018

GT49er said:
'An urgent action plan'............to do what, exactly?

Well, how about the following.

Short-term - increase police numbers in areas where gangs are operating, increase community liaison, and increase stop and search. This would give some level of comfort to those living in the areas, and would damp down the violence for a while.

Long-term - restore police numbers and funding, and restore funding on youth centres, youth workers and parenting coaching.

How is that for a start - or do you propose to do nothing and hope it goes away?

GT49er · Apr 7, 2018

Dr Bandler said:
Well, how about the following.

Short-term - increase police numbers in areas where gangs are operating, increase community liaison, and increase stop and search. This would give some level of comfort to those living in the areas, and would damp down the violence for a while.

Long-term - restore police numbers and funding, and restore funding on youth centres, youth workers and parenting coaching.

How is that for a start - or do you propose to do nothing and hope it goes away?

I don't/didn't propose anything. I merely asked what you hoped or expected from an urgent action plan. I remain fairly cynical, though, about the power that be's ability to do anything successfully, action plan or no.

Dr Bandler · Apr 7, 2018

GT49er said:
I don't/didn't propose anything. I merely asked what you hoped or expected from an urgent action plan. I remain fairly cynical, though, about the power that be's ability to do anything successfully, action plan or no.

Yes, you are probably right. Government, police, councils do not seem very effective. When they do act, it takes an age and is rarely done well.

W.C. · Apr 7, 2018

looney said:
Oh Im not complaining, Im just pointing out your hypocracy whereas, "It's funny how you always resort to insults when you're caught out not knowing what you're talking about. " Is straight up Snowflakery seeing I do know what I am talking about seeing you dodged the response. Keep trying Soyboy, keep trying.

Did you really just say 'soyboy'?

Herr Tubthumper · Apr 9, 2018

daveinprague said:
Theres also the influence from the USA, that being in a gang is somehow glamorous.

The prospects for youngsters from working class backgrounds are pretty shit these days. If you want to get on and get a decent education it’s going to cost a fortune. And even if you do land a decent paid job with prospects you’re probably still going to have to live at home until you’re 30 odd. Brilliant. I can understand why some can’t be arsed so turn to gangs.

Dr Bandler · Apr 10, 2018

Herr Tubthumper said:
The prospects for youngsters from working class backgrounds are pretty shit these days. If you want to get on and get a decent education it’s going to cost a fortune. And even if you do land a decent paid job with prospects you’re probably still going to have to live at home until you’re 30 odd. Brilliant. I can understand why some can’t be arsed so turn to gangs.

What a disempowering thought. You should start a new outreach service called "anti-mentoring" where the goal is that everyone gives up hope, takes drugs, turns to crime, and kills themselves.

Seriously, there are people (like a colleague of mine) who give up their time to mentor inner-city, deprived teenagers. Listening to him would frighten the hell out of any of us cozy, middle-class, Sussex people. The level of weapons and gang culture thinking is rife, even down to young kids. It is a cancer that needs to be cut out of society, with steely determination.

hoveboyslim · Apr 10, 2018

Notters said:
Whilst this is obviously not a good thing (and, interestingly, the estimated population for both cities is 8.54 million, so in some ways it's a good compairson), the annual murder rate for New York is circa 327 (average for last five years), and for London is 105. I don't think taking one or two months is representative. I wouldn't be surprised if the murder rates in New York are lower in January and February due to the extreme cold weather they have.

Worth noting that there were 2245 murders in New York in 1990 compared to 190 in London.

Do you, by any chance, listen to Radio 4's More or Less: Behind the Statistics?

Herr Tubthumper · Apr 10, 2018

Dr Bandler said:
What a disempowering thought. You should start a new outreach service called "anti-mentoring" where the goal is that everyone gives up hope, takes drugs, turns to crime, and kills themselves.

Seriously, there are people (like a colleague of mine) who give up their time to mentor inner-city, deprived teenagers. Listening to him would frighten the hell out of any of us cozy, middle-class, Sussex people. The level of weapons and gang culture thinking is rife, even down to young kids. It is a cancer that needs to be cut out of society, with steely determination.

I here what you’re saying. But I feel part of the resolution is providing plenty of genuine hope and opportunity for youngsters. My feeling is part of the issue is the range of options on offer. If I was 18 and faced with paying 50k for an education, or the very real change of ending up on a zero hours minimum wage contract in a high street shop I might think again. I appreciate there are other jobs out there but it doesn’t seem there’s many....and not everyone can have one of these “other” jobs even if they wanted to.

It’s blindingly obvious to me the U.K. needs to grow different economic sectors but it’s been constantly overlooked by every government in my life time.

hoveboyslim · Apr 10, 2018

Dr Bandler said:
Today we hear that there have been seven more stabbings in London.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-london-43659952?__twitter_impression=true

I honestly believe that the time for theoretical debate is over. This is almost a national emergency and people, especially the government, need to formulate an urgent action plan - both short-term and long-term.

So depressing.

I think it's too early to tell if the recent increase are statistical outliers or there is a real increase. Frequency bias may also be coming in to play, as the media could well be giving greater coverage of stabbings in London than they perhaps normally would.

Thunder Bolt · Apr 10, 2018

Two Professors said:
Not been one of your best plans,Your Worship,has it?

View attachment 95838

Stop and search causes resentment as the police tend to pick on easy targets. I was listening to someone on the radio yesterday who was explaining the weapons are hidden in specific places, and so many of them, the gang members don't even need to carry them. They have easy access to a knife at all times.

Dr Bandler · Apr 10, 2018

Herr Tubthumper said:
I here what you’re saying. But I feel part of the resolution is providing plenty of genuine hope and opportunity for youngsters. My feeling is part of the issue is the range of options on offer. If I was 18 and faced with paying 50k for an education, or the very real change of ending up on a zero hours minimum wage contract in a high street shop I might think again. I appreciate there are other jobs out there but it doesn’t seem there’s many....and not everyone can have one of these “other” jobs even if they wanted to.

It’s blindingly obvious to me the U.K. needs to grow different economic sectors but it’s been constantly overlooked by every government in my life time.

Absolutely agree. We have an increasing population with decreasing life chances. The priorities should be growing diverse economic sectors and excellent technology and education for all. In my lifetime some politicians have espoused this (e.g. Tony Blair), but it never seems to happen.

Just as a comparison, I lived in Switzerland for a few years, where their high-quality industry is valued and protected. If a youth is not academically gifted, they will go into an apprenticeship and into industry, and will still be made to feel a valued member of society. It leads to a more cohesive society. I do understand that Switzerland doesn't have such a large percentage of unskilled inward immigration as the UK, nor the legacy of so many existing people who are not part of society. Nevertheless there are some lessons we could learn.

Notters · Apr 10, 2018

hoveboyslim said:
Do you, by any chance, listen to Radio 4's More or Less: Behind the Statistics?

No, never heard of it ! Will look it up.

symyjym · Apr 10, 2018

Dr Bandler said:
Well, how about the following.

Short-term - increase police numbers in areas where gangs are operating, increase community liaison, and increase stop and search. This would give some level of comfort to those living in the areas, and would damp down the violence for a while.

Long-term - restore police numbers and funding, and restore funding on youth centres, youth workers and parenting coaching.

How is that for a start - or do you propose to do nothing and hope it goes away?

The solution needs to start from within the communities with respected elders getting together and coordinating their own voluntary stop and search, for weapons only, confiscating them, and handing over to the police. Having a helpline that is worked by the community who can step in and mediate disputes even if they are drug related debts would also help.

To increase police numbers, who will predominantly be white, will only exasperate the problem that will inevitably result in some police brutality claim when someone gets hurt or killed resisting arrest.

If there were more black police it would make it easier but the police are generally regarded as the enemy.

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