[Misc] Building project advice

Doonhamer7 · Mar 25, 2018

We’ve just completed our extension c£100k. It has taken 18months to get here. Had we known each step it could have been half the time. Chose an architect who knows local planning department, we did but even then it took a resubmission to get it through. Fees should be about £4K for architect (two sets of drawings - planning then building regs), we needed structural design for numerous beams so another £1.2k, part wall agreement could be another £1k, planning fee, building reg fee.
Finding a good builder who can start when you’d like is the problem, I looked in January, by the time I did spec, went out for bids etc it was over 7months. We got a very good builder BUT that meant he had 5+jobs on the go so there was delays. Make sure they are always in debt to you - don’t pay up front and try to have at least 20% on final payment.
Also you have to tell your insurer and mortgage provider if it is over a certain value.
On the contract - having a jct etc is fine but any good builder will be able to run rings round you if you decide to get contractual - so either add in qs cost or do research on your builder by speaking to previous clients and others in the trade to their attitude to their fixed price.
All the quotes we got wouldn’t fix price electrical or plumbing - all provisional sums. Reason being is you will change your mind.
Also spend lots and lots of time thinking about the human factors / ergonomics for when it’s complete - where do you want plugs, how do doors open, radiators etc

ofco8 · Mar 25, 2018

Justice said:
Ha people that have never been on the tools always come out with this rubbish. We always take a deposit prior to start date and if the client disagrees which is never to be honest then I would walk away.

Lucky you but here is one who would never employ you. Seen to much grief over the years. Look at that Brighton company in the news a month or so ago. Left people who had paid up front with £'000s pounds of debt. Most builders who need money up front use the deposit to pay debts built up on previous jobs.

Weststander · Mar 25, 2018

Doonhamer7 said:
We’ve just completed our extension c£100k. It has taken 18months to get here. Had we known each step it could have been half the time. Chose an architect who knows local planning department, we did but even then it took a resubmission to get it through. Fees should be about £4K for architect (two sets of drawings - planning then building regs), we needed structural design for numerous beams so another £1.2k, part wall agreement could be another £1k, planning fee, building reg fee.
Finding a good builder who can start when you’d like is the problem, I looked in January, by the time I did spec, went out for bids etc it was over 7months. We got a very good builder BUT that meant he had 5+jobs on the go so there was delays. Make sure they are always in debt to you - don’t pay up front and try to have at least 20% on final payment.
Also you have to tell your insurer and mortgage provider if it is over a certain value.
On the contract - having a jct etc is fine but any good builder will be able to run rings round you if you decide to get contractual - so either add in qs cost or do research on your builder by speaking to previous clients and others in the trade to their attitude to their fixed price.
All the quotes we got wouldn’t fix price electrical or plumbing - all provisional sums. Reason being is you will change your mind.
Also spend lots and lots of time thinking about the human factors / ergonomics for when it’s complete - where do you want plugs, how do doors open, radiators etc

The JCT contract worked wonders for us. There was no later need to get legal, as the fixed price (which the contractor later regretted) bound them and our well thought out spec needed little variation. Finally, the JCT contract with its inherent retention encouraged the contractor to properly and promptly clear the snagging list.

There was no running rings round anyone. Be confident, polite but firm, and no builder will succeed in any attempt to vary the price other than for genuine works. Some customers might prefer a good architect, QS or project manager to handle this.

portslade seagull · Mar 25, 2018

Perkino said:
90k for a single storey extension is quite a lot

That included the kitchen and Bathroom

pauli cee · Mar 25, 2018

I'm more than willing to give you a discounted (bha) price on the electrical work if you are getting your own separate contractors in

CAPTAIN GREALISH · Mar 25, 2018

ofco8 said:
Lucky you but here is one who would never employ you. Seen to much grief over the years. Look at that Brighton company in the news a month or so ago. Left people who had paid up front with £'000s pounds of debt. Most builders who need money up front use the deposit to pay debts built up on previous jobs.

absolute bollox

Justice · Mar 25, 2018

ofco8 said:
Lucky you but here is one who would never employ you. Seen to much grief over the years. Look at that Brighton company in the news a month or so ago. Left people who had paid up front with £'000s pounds of debt. Most builders who need money up front use the deposit to pay debts built up on previous jobs.

I'm not a builder but please explain why I should give my customers credit of any kind? That's why I'm still trading and many have failed if it's £200 or £20000 for materials I insist on payment upfront with full payment on completion or stages. My suppliers need paying and I wouldn't ruin my relationship with them risking all on a customer who may or not pay.

Weststander · Mar 25, 2018

CAPTAIN GREALISH said:
absolute bollox

What’s the bollox part? That builders don’t need upfront payment?

Doonhamer7 · Mar 25, 2018

My builder didn’t need or ask for upfront payment, he charged me once his suppliers / subcontractor charged him. Had to say this was the builders suggestion - made me feel in control

Notters · Mar 25, 2018

Interesting thread this. Be good to see some photos of finished extensions as looking for ideas. Not sure if there are any Yorkshire based contractors on here though?!

Weststander · Mar 25, 2018

Doonhamer7 said:
My builder didn’t need or ask for upfront payment, he charged me once his suppliers / subcontractor charged him. Had to say this was the builders suggestion - made me feel in control

Builders should not be paid in advance.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/getting-home-improvements-done/before-you-get-building-work-done/

They pay subbies and employees AFTER work has progressed, and most materials are paid for x weeks later with suppliers. If well known suppliers won’t give them credit, that raises alarm bells about the builder’s business.

An exception might be the purchase of special items such as expensive windows, where their supplier never offers credit.

CAPTAIN GREALISH · Mar 25, 2018

Weststander said:
What’s the bollox part? That builders don’t need upfront payment?

didn't say that? was said builders are using deposits to pay of debts ? never worked like that for me in 38 years in the building trade always paid my way with suppliers most clients understand you need stage payments to keep the job moving?? not upfront

CAPTAIN GREALISH · Mar 25, 2018

Notters said:
Interesting thread this. Be good to see some photos of finished extensions as looking for ideas. Not sure if there are any Yorkshire based contractors on here though?!

long way to come back to watch the albion?

Justice · Mar 25, 2018

Weststander said:
Builders should not be paid in advance.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/getting-home-improvements-done/before-you-get-building-work-done/

They pay subbies and employees AFTER work has progressed, and most materials are paid for x weeks later with suppliers. If well known suppliers won’t give them credit, that raises alarm bells about the builder’s business.

An exception might be the purchase of special items such as expensive windows, where their supplier never offers credit.

Not all people ordering work are trustworthy its called getting knocked in the trade and happens a lot unfortunately. Do you ever see a tv program about Rogue customers not paying their tradesman...of course you don't that wouldn't suit Dominic Littlewood now would it. I've already said why should tradesman give credit to customers? we are not banks if you want materials for your job pay for them or get them yourself.

I always paid as I go with my supplier for over 25 years so I might suggest a credit account means sod all about a persons reputation.

Notters · Mar 25, 2018

CAPTAIN GREALISH said:
long way to come back to watch the albion?

Yep. Keeping my season ticket next season and seeing how it goes.

Jam The Man · Apr 27, 2018

I'm starting to get quotes in for my single storey flat roof extension, having submitted plans etc. Basically I am going to be replacing a conservatory with a proper structure and I don't want the new one to be as cold as the conservatory is in the winter, or as hot as the conservatory in the summer.

To this end, for the life of me I can't make my mind up on three points:

1.Suspended floor vs Concrete

2.Cold roof or warm roof construction

3.Roof sky lights or not

Any experiences shared would be useful!

Cheers!

Brixtaan · Apr 29, 2018

I’m putting a whole storey on my bungalow next year if there are any builders here who fancy it? We’re getting quotes now and attempting our own quantity survey first.

Triggaaar · Apr 29, 2018

Jam The Man said:
3.Roof sky lights or not

You need light. Lots of it. But obviously it depends on the size, doors and windows etc.

Could you post a plan of the room?

Jam The Man · Apr 29, 2018

Triggaaar said:
You need light. Lots of it. But obviously it depends on the size, doors and windows etc.

Could you post a plan of the room?

Not at home at the mo to access my plans, but the plan is a 6m x 6m room with 3m bifold patio doors into the garden. No side windows.
Virtually everyone has said to definitely get 2x roof lights 3mx1m in a flat roof

sams dad · Apr 29, 2018

Jam The Man said:
I'm starting to get quotes in for my single storey flat roof extension, having submitted plans etc. Basically I am going to be replacing a conservatory with a proper structure and I don't want the new one to be as cold as the conservatory is in the winter, or as hot as the conservatory in the summer.

To this end, for the life of me I can't make my mind up on three points:

1.Suspended floor vs Concrete

2.Cold roof or warm roof construction

3.Roof sky lights or not

Any experiences shared would be useful!

Cheers!

1) Go for a concrete beam suspended floor with block infill. Quicker to install and should give a cost saving.
2) Definitely warm roof. Again, quicker to fit, no need to ventilate the roof, and keeps Building Control happy. The downside is that the overall thickness of the roof means that the carpenter will have to be a bit creative to avoid a very deep fascia.
3) Depends on how much other glazing you have in the extension. generally speaking the total glazing area can't exceed 25% of the floor area, but you can usually get away with a bit more if you upgrade the insulation. One downside with rooflights is that condensation forms on them , unless you get really good double/triple glazed ones.

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