[Politics] People you'd rather see as Foreign Secretary than Boris Johnson

Giraffe · Aug 8, 2018

spring hall convert said:
So why do you think he included it?

To get more people talking about it, which has worked. We wouldn't be having this discussion otherwise.

It is also a fairly common reference, you only need to google letterbox and burkas to find many an illustration of this, long before Boris made any comments.

It wasn't that long ago that there was a Harry Enfield sketch on the BBC on this, which may have actually made the comparison, but I might be wrong.

beorhthelm · Aug 8, 2018

spring hall convert said:
The issue isn't whether you agree with Boris or not.

The issue is the deliberately inflammatory language around postboxes & bank robbers. It is very easy to have this debate in a civilised fashion.

And if Johnson does stridently believe what he is saying rather than using it for a bout of Bannon driven non-virtue signalling, then is the best way to deal with victims of oppression (as he paints them to be) to ridicule them in public?

ridicule is not the best way to deal with victims, but he has brought the topic to discussion. is that a good thing? should we ban or accept the burka? i would say it doesnt have a place in our society, we would be suspicious of people walking the streets with balaclavas or shozoku (ninja outfit), so why not the burka?

now you may have a angry retort to that, though i've said nothing against a religion or people, isnt this what we should be discussing rather than Mr Johnson? its almost seems like, if it is indeed his intention to signal and promote himself to a subset of the population, everyone has fallen right into the trapn. funny old state our politics is in.

spring hall convert · Aug 8, 2018

Giraffe said:
To get more people talking about it, which has worked. We wouldn't be having this discussion otherwise.

It is also a fairly common reference, you only need to google letterbox and burkas to find many an illustration of this, long before Boris made any comments.

It wasn't that long ago that there was a Harry Enfield sketch on the BBC on this, which may have actually made the comparison, but I might be wrong.

So you feel that it is fair game to ridicule the victims of oppression (presumably your view)?

I fail to see what the oppressed have done to deserve shaming in a national newspaper. You can't have it both ways, either these women are the victims of oppression and don't have agency over their actions so to shame them in public is crassness of the highest order, or they do and you are trying to oppress them yourself.

Diablo · Aug 8, 2018

spring hall convert said:
To normalise the ridicule of an oppressed (Boris' view) group?

Normalise the ridicule of an oppressed group. You`ve lost me.....Boris considers Burka wearers an oppressed group?.....Surely the opposite, he considers them a favoured group. No other group is allowed to hide their identity behind clothing in banks shops pubs clubs etc.

Two Professors · Aug 8, 2018

wellquickwoody said:
Now you are talking UTTER tosh. There are Muslims wearing Burkhas and Niqabs in Hove, they are in Beaconsfield, they are in Gloucester, they exist in many places you would not expect. Add to this that people do actually travel, then old ladies from Eastbourne go to London, sheep farmers from the Dales go to Blackburn, and even Tories have to drive through Luton occasionally!

How is the state of play where you are?Have they banned the burkha yet?

spring hall convert · Aug 8, 2018

Diablo said:
Normalise the ridicule of an oppressed group. You`ve lost me.....Boris considers Burka wearers an oppressed group?.....Surely the opposite, he considers them a favoured group. No other group is allowed to hide their identity behind clothing in banks shops pubs clubs etc.

'Denmark has got it wrong. Yes, the burka is oppressive and ridiculous – but that's still no reason to ban it.'

The title of the article.

wellquickwoody · Aug 8, 2018

Two Professors said:
How is the state of play where you are?Have they banned the burkha yet?

No. But Australia is a changing, they let anyone in now.....

Herr Tubthumper · Aug 8, 2018

Giraffe said:
Letterboxes no, although we all can see what he means.

Bank robbers yes, because it's relevant. They present a security risk. If you go into a bank or petrol station wearing a motorcycle helmet you are asked to remove it. What is the difference? Perhaps his wording could have been better, but nonetheless I don't fundamentally disagree with the overall point he is making. Personally like several European countries I would ban it, but Boris is not saying that. He prefers to question it's validity and try and win the argument. In a way that has to be admired v the blanket approach taken by the French for example.

Yes, yes it could have been.

Boroseagull · Aug 8, 2018

Two Professors said:
How is the state of play where you are?Have they banned the burkha yet?

Well Spain has not banned it nationally - however local councils/mayors have the option to do so locally. In our town, and most surrounding ones, Burkas, Niqabs are banned on the reason of being demeaning to women. Rules may be enforced by Polica Local.

TheJasperCo · Aug 8, 2018

I nominate Elmo. Cuddly and lovable, infectious smile, better hair, probably smells nicer, less irritating voice, more endearing with young and old...

spring hall convert · Aug 8, 2018

beorhthelm said:
ridicule is not the best way to deal with victims, but he has brought the topic to discussion. is that a good thing? should we ban or accept the burka? i would say it doesnt have a place in our society, we would be suspicious of people walking the streets with balaclavas or shozoku (ninja outfit), so why not the burka?

now you may have a angry retort to that, though i've said nothing against a religion or people, isnt this what we should be discussing rather than Mr Johnson? its almost seems like, if it is indeed his intention to signal and promote himself to a subset of the population, everyone has fallen right into the trapn. funny old state our politics is in.

I don't have an issue with anything you've said. I agree that should the appetite be there that this is a debate worth having. However, if we have to accept cheap Islamophobic jibes from high profile politicians as part of the debate then it's a no from me.

Hamilton · Aug 8, 2018

A honey badger.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

mikeyjh · Aug 8, 2018

beorhthelm said:
ridicule is not the best way to deal with victims, but he has brought the topic to discussion. is that a good thing? should we ban or accept the burka? i would say it doesnt have a place in our society, we would be suspicious of people walking the streets with balaclavas or shozoku (ninja outfit), so why not the burka?

now you may have a angry retort to that, though i've said nothing against a religion or people, isnt this what we should be discussing rather than Mr Johnson? its almost seems like, if it is indeed his intention to signal and promote himself to a subset of the population, everyone has fallen right into the trapn. funny old state our politics is in.

No! For the vast majority of people, the burka is not something they have ever been concerned about, they would barely ever see one. He's whipping it up as an issue, it so obvious, so blatant, I can't believe people fall for it.

Pavilionaire · Aug 8, 2018

Giraffe said:
I agree with Boris. There I have said it. Shoot me down.

I also think 90% of the country does as well. Brighton like London no longer reflects the country's opinion, as Brexit showed.

IT'S A DRESS! It really doesn't matter that much - Nuns cover themselves in black head to foot as do Orthodox Jews - big deal!

Describing a person's appearance as a bankrobber or letterbox crosses the line. Dog whistle racism is what it is, he's playing to the type of people who voted Trump in the USA. Anyone who falls for this claptrap is a mug.

Hampden Park · Aug 8, 2018

mikeyjh said:
No! For the vast majority of people, the burka is not something they have ever been concerned about, they would barely ever see one. He's whipping it up as an issue, it so obvious, so blatant, I can't believe people fall for it.

pop to Birmingham, there are 'peek a boo's' everywhere

Giraffe · Aug 8, 2018

Pavilionaire said:
IT'S A DRESS! It really doesn't matter that much - Nuns cover themselves in black head to foot as do Orthodox Jews - big deal!

Er. See if you can spot the difference.

hans kraay fan club · Aug 8, 2018

Giraffe said:
Er. See if you can spot the difference.

Top one has more bling? :shrug:

Giraffe · Aug 8, 2018

hans kraay fan club said:
Top one has more bling?

Yep that's it.

pb21 · Aug 8, 2018

You can question whether a burqa is good or not.

You can't IMO ridicule, and effectively legitimise further ridicule, of whole sections of society by saying that they look like letter boxes, particularly if you want to be taken seriously, and even more particularly if you have aspirations of leading the country.

Two Professors · Aug 8, 2018

Hampden Park said:
pop to Birmingham, there are 'peek a boo's' everywhere

All the schoolkids take the p1ss,even the moslems who aren't stuck with them as mothers.Black daleks,bin Liner, are some of the kinder names.Kids can be very cruel.

Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊

[Politics] People you'd rather see as Foreign Secretary than Boris Johnson

VERY part time moderator

A. Virgo, Football Genius

Well-known member

Well-known member

Two Mad Professors

Well-known member

Many More Voting Years

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Ex R.N.

VERY part time moderator

Attachments

The voice of reason.

VERY part time moderator

Well-known member

Two Mad Professors

Share this page