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[News] Government to partly redress 13 years of chronic Tory underfunding of the NHS



hans kraay fan club

The voice of reason.
Helpful Moderator
Mar 16, 2005
61,094
Chandlers Ford
Hopefully 33,000 nurses wont leave The NHS this year now as happened last year, because with the nursing bursary now removed it's not as an appealing career move, particularly to mature students and care workers, who will find themselves saddled with debt in middle age meaning not enough new nurses are coming through to replace those leaving - Currently 13% down on new trainee nursing applications for September of this year already.


The figure of 33,00 is contained in the full link you selectively posted in your original post -

:jester:
 


vegster

Sanity Clause
May 5, 2008
27,867
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-43481341

More than one million NHS staff, including nurses, porters and paramedics, can expect pay increases of at least 6.5% over three years - with some rises being as high as 29%.

The deal has been formally agreed by unions and ministers on Wednesday and could cost as much as £4bn.

Pay rises will be backdated to April this year, if staff agree to the deal.

The deal is tiered - with the lowest paid workers in each job receiving the biggest rises.

The agreement covers all staff on the Agenda for Change contract - about 1.3m across the UK - which is the entire workforce with the exception of doctors, dentists and senior leaders.

The agreement is complex. It says that:

-half will get a 6.5% pay rise over three years
-the other half will receive rises of between 9% and 29%
-the lowest full-time salary - paid to the likes of cleaners, porters and catering staff - will rise by 15% to more than £18,000
-these groups will get an immediate £2,000 rise this year
-a nurse with one year's experience would see their basic pay rise by 21% over three years, giving them a salary of up to £27,400
-the deal includes a commitment on both sides to reduce the high rate of sickness absence in the NHS

Sara Gorton, lead negotiator for the 14 health unions, said: "It won't solve every problem in the NHS but it will go a long way towards making dedicated health staff feel more valued, lift flagging morale and help turn the tide on staffing problems."

What happened to privatisation?
About time, pity the amount of earnings they have lost thanks to years of below inflation pay rises. Inflation running at close to 3% immediately takes a big chunk out of this three year deal though.
 




dazzer6666

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Mar 27, 2013
52,019
Burgess Hill
Hopefully 33,000 nurses wont leave The NHS this year now as happened last year, because with the nursing bursary now removed it's not as an appealing career move, particularly to mature students and care workers, who will find themselves saddled with debt in middle age meaning not enough new nurses are coming through to replace those leaving - Currently 13% down on new trainee nursing applications for September of this year already.

Making nursing students pay tuition fees (came in last academic year I think) is even more stupid. Given the crap working conditions and crap pay, the incentive to qualify must be disappearing.
 


Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Jul 11, 2003
59,203
The Fatherland




SweatyMexican

Well-known member
Mar 31, 2013
4,099
That money doesn’t just disappear too. It comes back into the economy when they spend it.

Long overdue for the NHS.
 


seagulls4ever

New member
Oct 2, 2003
4,338
Making nursing students pay tuition fees (came in last academic year I think) is even more stupid. Given the crap working conditions and crap pay, the incentive to qualify must be disappearing.

It's the same thing. The reason why those tuition fees have to be paid is because the bursary was removed.
 


Buzzer

Languidly Clinical
Oct 1, 2006
26,121
They should take the NHS out of the politician's control and into a panel of independent health care experts who understand what the Hippocratic oath means and given the power to make long-term strategic plans which is what it needs. Also give them the ability to audit their suppliers for value for money. The NHS is obliged at the moment to buy a lot of supplies for prices a lot higher than they could get just by going onto Amazon.

And PPF contracts to be subject to a public inquiry and the option for having Parliament pass a bill for them to be re-negotiated.
 




hans kraay fan club

The voice of reason.
Helpful Moderator
Mar 16, 2005
61,094
Chandlers Ford
Making nursing students pay tuition fees (came in last academic year I think) is even more stupid. Given the crap working conditions and crap pay, the incentive to qualify must be disappearing.

Indeed. Charging tuition fees to people who want to train as doctors or nurses (or for that matter physiotherapists, occupational therapists, etc, etc) is just so backward, it defies belief.

Provide the training completely free (they can borrow or fund their own maintenance costs) with nothing repayable in return for an obligation to work within the NHS for a specified number of years (10 :shrug: ). If they qualify at our cost and then look to bugger off to Saudi or something to get lucrative work in the private sector, then they can repay their training costs.
 


Dick Head

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
Jan 3, 2010
13,612
Quaxxann
The figure of 33,00 is contained in the full link you selectively posted in your original post -



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-42653542

cnypAV4.jpg
 


The Clamp

Well-known member
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Jan 11, 2016
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West is BEST
Anyone who votes Tory is by definition anti-NHS so trying to sound all smug now simply doesn't cut it. May is the queen of NHS cuts.

Theresa "The Razor" May.
 




dazzer6666

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Mar 27, 2013
52,019
Burgess Hill
It's the same thing. The reason why those tuition fees have to be paid is because the bursary was removed.

It’s ridiculous........the amount previously paid was more than just the fees and helped contribute to living costs. Now they nothing and end up with the same levels of debt as any other student........which is grossly unfair given the placement time they have to complete every term as well (whilst this is ‘learning’ it’s also unpaid labour - 2300 hours approx during a degree).

Scottish nursing students however pay no fees and get a bursary of nearly £7k a year (and since last year, English students studying at Uni in Scotland have to pay fees and don’t get the bursary).
 


dazzer6666

Well-known member
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Mar 27, 2013
52,019
Burgess Hill
Indeed. Charging tuition fees to people who want to train as doctors or nurses (or for that matter physiotherapists, occupational therapists, etc, etc) is just so backward, it defies belief.

Provide the training completely free (they can borrow or fund their own maintenance costs) with nothing repayable in return for an obligation to work within the NHS for a specified number of years (10 :shrug: ). If they qualify at our cost and then look to bugger off to Saudi or something to get lucrative work in the private sector, then they can repay their training costs.

Agreed. They do this in Wales - it’s 3 years there.....it’s just English nursing students that are massively disincentivised.
 


Titanic

Super Moderator
Helpful Moderator
Jul 5, 2003
39,025
West Sussex
The figure of 33,00 is contained in the full link you selectively posted in your original post -



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-42653542

Hahhaha! [MENTION=36]Titanic[/MENTION] , you utter goon.

[MENTION=36]Titanic[/MENTION] you clown


So you all believe that there are 33,000 fewer nurses working in NHS hospitals than last year? Really??

And yes, he clearly tried to suggest that was the case.

The facts about nursing numbers (and NHS staff in general), while still acknowledging the huge pressures our NHS is facing with a growing and aging population, are somewhat different.

"The full time equivalent (FTE) NHS Workforce total was 1,057,900 in December 2017. This is 18,835 (1.8 per cent) more than in December 2016 (1,039,065)."

https://digital.nhs.uk/catalogue/PUB30240
 




seagulls4ever

New member
Oct 2, 2003
4,338
So you all believe that there are 33,000 fewer nurses working in NHS hospitals than last year? Really??

And yes, he clearly tried to suggest that was the case.

The facts about nursing numbers (and NHS staff in general), while still acknowledging the huge pressures our NHS is facing with a growing and aging population, are somewhat different.

"The full time equivalent (FTE) NHS Workforce total was 1,057,900 in December 2017. This is 18,835 (1.8 per cent) more than in December 2016 (1,039,065)."

https://digital.nhs.uk/catalogue/PUB30240

No he didn't. He said "Hopefully 33,000 nurses wont leave The NHS this year now as happened last year,". I think it's pretty obvious that he's implying that's how many nurses left the NHS last year, not the difference between those that left and those that joined.

If you want to see the difference between the leavers and joiners, you could just read the link he posted, where it says:

Leavers outnumbered joiners by 3,000 last year, the biggest gap over the five-year period examined by the BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-42653542

This is at a time where we desperately need joiners to outnumber leavers.
 


ManOfSussex

We wunt be druv
Apr 11, 2016
14,730
Rape of Hastings, Sussex
So you all believe that there are 33,000 fewer nurses working in NHS hospitals than last year? Really??

And yes, he clearly tried to suggest that was the case.

The facts about nursing numbers (and NHS staff in general), while still acknowledging the huge pressures our NHS is facing with a growing and aging population, are somewhat different.

"The full time equivalent (FTE) NHS Workforce total was 1,057,900 in December 2017. This is 18,835 (1.8 per cent) more than in December 2016 (1,039,065)."

https://digital.nhs.uk/catalogue/PUB30240

What part of:

Hopefully 33,000 nurses wont leave The NHS this year now as happened last year

Is incorrect or is me suggesting that there are 33,000 fewer nurses working in hospitals than last year?

It's a well known figure, it's even contained in the article you used in your original post that you didn't read, yet somehow you're now erroneously suggesting that I 'clearly tried' to suggest something else ie there are 33,000 fewer nurses working in NHS hospital than last year, which I didn't.

Go away.
 


The Clamp

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Jan 11, 2016
24,290
West is BEST
So you all believe that there are 33,000 fewer nurses working in NHS hospitals than last year? Really??

And yes, he clearly tried to suggest that was the case.

The facts about nursing numbers (and NHS staff in general), while still acknowledging the huge pressures our NHS is facing with a growing and aging population, are somewhat different.

"The full time equivalent (FTE) NHS Workforce total was 1,057,900 in December 2017. This is 18,835 (1.8 per cent) more than in December 2016 (1,039,065)."

https://digital.nhs.uk/catalogue/PUB30240

:wozza::facepalm:
 






Sirnormangall

Well-known member
Sep 21, 2017
2,940
Anyone who votes Tory is by definition anti-NHS so trying to sound all smug now simply doesn't cut it. May is the queen of NHS cuts.

Theresa "The Razor" May.
I know a few Tory voters and none of them are anti-NHS, in fact quite the opposite. It’s good to see the announcement today - well deserved for all the hard working NHS workers who we sometimes take for granted. But where does “13 years” come from?
 


Chicken Run

Member Since Jul 2003
NSC Patreon
Jul 17, 2003
18,278
Valley of Hangleton
The selfish commies on this board will public applaud this news in many ways including Dave’s example above but inside will be feeling a little sick that the government are doing something positive, pushing their beloved Momentum further to the peripheries
 



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