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[News] Russia at it again ? Litvenenko #2 ?



Buzzer

Buzzer

Languidly Clinical
Oct 1, 2006
26,121
Brighton Lines said:
Ex-British Ambassador, Craig Murray.
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...who, just a few days ago, was trying to blame Israel for orchestrating the Labour MPs condemnation of Russia. I don't think Murray can be regarded as totally neutral here either. He's now number two at Wiki-leaks and both he and Wiki-leaks have a fair bit of history of showing bias towards Russia.

[tweet]974192978574094337[/tweet]

Sadly, I think he's going the same way as David Shayler in getting so wrapped up in conspiracies.
 






C

colinz

Banned
Oct 17, 2010
862
Auckland
Renegade1 said:
This is a perfect excuse to withdraw the England team from the World Cup therefore saving them the embarrassment of getting knocked out in the group stages.
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Probably the perfect excuse to boycott the World Cup, because Russia should never have been awarded it in the first place. Other teams will follow, finally putting FIFA et al in their place.
 


Eeyore

Eeyore

Colonel Hee-Haw of Queen's Park
NSC Patron
Apr 5, 2014
23,514
Buzzer said:
...who, just a few days ago, was trying to blame Israel for orchestrating the Labour MPs condemnation of Russia. I don't think Murray can be regarded as totally neutral here either. He's now number two at Wiki-leaks and both he and Wiki-leaks have a fair bit of history of showing bias towards Russia.

[tweet]974192978574094337[/tweet]

Sadly, I think he's going the same way as David Shayler in getting so wrapped up in conspiracies.
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Yes. I'm normally careful with who I quote, Bit of a clanger there.

It's the accusations against Corbyn (they haven't learnt yet) in the right wing media (and in Labour) that annoy me.

He hasn't said that Russia isn't behind it, he has merely tried to stop the sabre rattling and asked for a process to be followed. The French haven't directly pointed the finger either. Most folk, including him (and Caroline Lucas who has pretty much supported the government's findings) think it's them.

What we are seeing here though is an excitement rather than an anger among western allies. It's almost as if this is what they wanted.

A Russian traitor, who is as much a British citizen as the smell of cash leads him (this is no Alexander Litvinenko- totally different) has been subject of an attempted murder. Now it's the subject of a shifting in international policy despite this sort of thing happening for years. I want to know what's really going on and why our 'leaders' are behaving like a wolf pack.

I guess, with her passionate and patriotic language, May is sensing a surge in popularity.

Still, she won't be calling another election in a hurry- and BREXIT (isn't there a big do on that coming) can take a back seat for a week or so.
 


Buzzer

Buzzer

Languidly Clinical
Oct 1, 2006
26,121
Brighton Lines said:
It's the accusations against Corbyn (they haven't learnt yet) in the right wing media (and in Labour) that annoy me. He hasn't said that Russia isn't behind it, he has merely tried to stop the sabre rattling and asked for a process to be followed.
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I don't think that's completely true. It's his stance now but initially, he as good as dismissed the evidence. He misjudged this completely and I'm certain that the blame for that can be placed at the door of his advisor, the Stalin apologist, Seumas Milne. Milne has even tried to compare this with Blair's dodgy WMD evidence such is his eagerness to discredit it. I'd agree that the right-wing media seem less interested in the event than Corbyn's response but on this occasion Corbyn has brought most of this on himself.

Brighton Lines said:
IA Russian traitor, who is as much a British citizen as the smell of cash leads him (this is no Alexander Litvinenko- totally different) has been subject of an attempted murder.
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That's an extremely odd take on it, in my opinion. Yes, he's a traitor to Russia but he spied for us for a very long time and at great personal risk to himself and his family so I'd say he's earned the right to come and live in the country that he spied for. It's what usually happens with double agents the world over. Are you as scathing and dismissive of Litvinenko or Oleg Gordiesky or Georgi Markov? Are they also nothing more than mere traitors who have/had extremely dubious and flimsy rights to live here?

I don't understand why you're saying he's no Litvinenko. Both worked for MI6, both betrayed their country, both became British.
 




Eeyore

Eeyore

Colonel Hee-Haw of Queen's Park
NSC Patron
Apr 5, 2014
23,514
Buzzer said:
I don't think that's completely true. It's his stance now but initially, he as good as dismissed the evidence. He misjudged this completely and I'm certain that the blame for that can be placed at the door of his advisor, the Stalin apologist, Seumas Milne. Milne has even tried to compare this with Blair's dodgy WMD evidence such is his eagerness to discredit it. I'd agree that the right-wing media seem less interested in the event than Corbyn's response but on this occasion Corbyn has brought most of this on himself.



That's an extremely odd take on it, in my opinion. Yes, he's a traitor to Russia but he spied for us for a very long time and at great personal risk to himself and his family so I'd say he's earned the right to come and live in the country that he spied for. It's what usually happens with double agents the world over. Are you as scathing and dismissive of Litvinenko or Oleg Gordiesky or Georgi Markov? Are they also nothing more than mere traitors who have/had extremely dubious and flimsy rights to live here?

I don't understand why you're saying he's no Litvinenko. Both worked for MI6, both betrayed their country, both became British.
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My understanding, as limited as it is, is that Alexander Litvinenko only joined MI6 after he fled Russia when he was sought for whistle blowing on the underhand techniques of the Russian government. Skripal seems like a murkier case.

My point is really that surely this isn't anything new. Litvinenko died in similar circumstances but the response seems different.
 


Bevendean Hillbilly

Bevendean Hillbilly

New member
Sep 4, 2006
12,805
Nestling in green nowhere
I often wonder just how much dirt there is concerning comrade Corbyn. For a large slice of his young life as a Bolshevik and, it's claimed, was entrapped by the Reds (not Liverpool) and has been subject to their puppeteering aver since.

There is a long list of morally dubious stuff concerning Jezza and his pals in Lubijanka square and he will do just about anything to downplay Russian sin...even in the current climate.

But Macron is a puzzle. I'm not sure what the French hope to gain by being skepical of our assertion that this is an act of War by Putin. But to demand that Porton down should supply the Russians with a sample of this nerve agent is , at best, a massive diss to us. If French citizens were murdered in Paris by the FSB I believe we would support them 100% if they accused Russia of the act. It's a very cheap shot to back Russian interests to our detriment and I just don't see why they've done it.
 








beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,288
trouble is Ernest, no else can make it. most European nations and US have accepted the evidence (not publically available, because you know secret shit), so you have to either accept they know it was Russia or accept the Mirror and pro-Russian groups know otherwise. all these groups are doing is feeding into the Russian agenda to spread fear and disharmony.
 


vegster

vegster

Sanity Clause
May 5, 2008
27,886
beorhthelm said:
trouble is Ernest, no else can make it. most European nations and US have accepted the evidence (not publically available, because you know secret shit), so you have to either accept they know it was Russia or accept the Mirror and pro-Russian groups know otherwise. all these groups are doing is feeding into the Russian agenda to spread fear and disharmony.
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This is not something made on a gas cooker in Coventry, although the Russian Foreign Minister deserves an Oscar for his accusations that this was a set up by the government to deflect from Brexit. Can anyone imagine Theresa May being able to organise an assassination using nerve agents given her current performance ?
 






Westdene Seagull

Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patron
Oct 27, 2003
20,993
The arse end of Hangleton
Ernest said:
Cancel the expulsion of the diplomats...

[tweet]981187977782136832[/tweet]
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Well Labour Insider is wrong on at least one of those statements - NATO did take action.
 






ManOfSussex

ManOfSussex

We wunt be druv
Apr 11, 2016
14,743
Rape of Hastings, Sussex
Gary Aitkenhead, chief executive of the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory (DSTL) at Porton Down, told Sky News they were not yet able to prove it was made in Russia.

He said: "We were able to identify it as novichok, to identify that it was military-grade nerve agent.

"We have not identified the precise source, but we have provided the scientific info to government who have then used a number of other sources to piece together the conclusions you have come to."

He said establishing its origin required "other inputs", some of them intelligence-based, that the Government has access to.

Mr Aitkenhead added: "It is our job to provide the scientific evidence of what this particular nerve agent is, we identified that it is from this particular family and that it is a military grade, but it is not our job to say where it was manufactured."

However, he confirmed the substance required "extremely sophisticated methods to create, something only in the capabilities of a state actor".
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https://news.sky.com/story/porton-d...source-of-novichok-that-poisoned-spy-11315387

Seems fair enough. Just a shame that Boris Johnson said this in an interview last week:

Let me be clear with you … When I look at the evidence, I mean the people from Porton Down, the laboratory ……

And they were absolutely categorical and I asked the guy myself, I said, "Are you sure?" And he said there's no doubt.
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http://www.dw.com/en/boris-johnson-...ripal-case-is-increasingly-bizarre/a-43043873
 


Triggaaar

Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,154
Goldstone
vegster said:
This is not something made on a gas cooker in Coventry, although the Russian Foreign Minister deserves an Oscar for his accusations that this was a set up by the government to deflect from Brexit.
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Did they really say that, and not in jest?
 


vegster

vegster

Sanity Clause
May 5, 2008
27,886
Triggaaar said:
Did they really say that, and not in jest?
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believe it or not yes, "to deflect from failing to get a good deal from Brexit " mindblowing !
 


Triggaaar

Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,154
Goldstone
vegster said:
believe it or not yes, "to deflect from failing to get a good deal from Brexit " mindblowing !
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Russia is special. They're so politically ****ed that they imagine we could believe something like that. It's like when the Kursk went down and a mother of one of the sailors was asking tough questions, and security and a doctor went up to her and injected her whilst on camera, and a second later she was unconscious.
 




vegster

vegster

Sanity Clause
May 5, 2008
27,886
Triggaaar said:
Russia is special. They're so politically ****ed that they imagine we could believe something like that. It's like when the Kursk went down and a mother of one of the sailors was asking tough questions, and security and a doctor went up to her and injected her whilst on camera, and a second later she was unconscious.
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I remember that ! that was as bad as leaving a trail of Polonium all the way back to Russia after Litvinenko.
 




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