[Albion] So it turns out that Anthony Knockaert really IS better than Ozil...

brakespear · Mar 11, 2018

Tooting Gull said:
Not sure why people aren't allowed to criticise Knockaert purely on what he did before this season. That was a shocking challenge, he should know better than that having been on the end of a few, notably the one at Watford. Could easily have broken the bloke's leg. And he costs us a man in the game, and his availability for three letting down manager, team-mates and fans alike.

But the way I see it you take the deserved flak, do your time, and then once he's back he should be forgiven if he gets back to what he has done so well for us - playing well, helping us win matches. No one has forgotten his contribution.

No excuse but possibly an explanation of what triggered it - just felt like a lot of frustration in that challenge, not just for the match itself but for the whole season. Knocky has failed to light up the Premier League as many thought he would, I am sure he is disappointed overall with how it has gone.

Agree with this - Knockaert has not really been on form for mist parts of the season imo, and you can see on his reactions to a poor pass or trying to run through too many players again that he realises where the fault lies but he but he does seem to take that on as a negative and we end up with silly petulance or a tackle like yesterday. And if 'passion' means flying at somebody studs up (luckily failing to connect properly) then I'd rather he be a good deal less passionate, frankly.

dadams2k11 · Mar 11, 2018

Tooting Gull said:
Not sure why people aren't allowed to criticise Knockaert purely on what he did before this season. That was a shocking challenge, he should know better than that having been on the end of a few, notably the one at Watford. Could easily have broken the bloke's leg. And he costs us a man in the game, and his availability for three letting down manager, team-mates and fans alike.

But the way I see it you take the deserved flak, do your time, and then once he's back he should be forgiven if he gets back to what he has done so well for us - playing well, helping us win matches. No one has forgotten his contribution.

No excuse but possibly an explanation of what triggered it - just felt like a lot of frustration in that challenge, not just for the match itself but for the whole season. Knocky has failed to light up the Premier League as many thought he would, I am sure he is disappointed overall with how it has gone.

It was probably the ball in the face from baines to win the throw in.

Mo Gosfield · Mar 11, 2018

Tooting Gull said:
No excuse but possibly an explanation of what triggered it - just felt like a lot of frustration in that challenge, not just for the match itself but for the whole season. Knocky has failed to light up the Premier League as many thought he would, I am sure he is disappointed overall with how it has gone.

Those that expected him to light up the PL, were, I'm afraid, wearing rose-tinted Championship spectacles. We all indulged his foibles, his tantrums, his slight eccentricity in the 2nd tier because of his potential to win games at that level but we needed to examine more closely whether his impact and effect in the Championship could transfer itself to the much more demanding higher level.
Would highly paid, talented players in the PL allow him the time and space to twist and turn and turn again and practise his party pieces?
An extravagance afforded him in the Championship, unlikely to be repeated in the street-wise and clued up PL. Would he get away with giving the ball away as much at the higher level? Knocky has always been wasteful on the ball but at Second tier level it is likely to be punished less and we, as fans were more tolerant. Would the savvy smart players at the highest level realise that here was a player on the edge, whose confidence can swing from sky-rocket high to moody petulance in seconds? Would the increased pressure on him see more cracks appearing and more exploitation from opponents.
From his own angle....the following.
1) It was obvious we needed a playmaker in the PL and sure enough. a very good one arrived in the shape of Gross. How would Knocky react to losing his main role of set-piece taker.
2) How far would he be prepared to " rein in " his game. To become less selfish ( when his selfishness was his strength in the Championship ) To restrict his numerous attempts to score worldies from 25 yards that invariably end up in row Z because of his lack of shooting technique from distance.
3) How much more would he be prepared to learn about himself and his game at the highest level? Would he appreciate that the PL is all about quick, simple, accurate football and that it is no place for ' overplaying '

Watching him yesterday, disappointed, frustrated and saddened me in equal measure. We all want him to do well but there were too many flaws on show at Goodison. Too many fans keep falling back on the excuse that his is wrestling with personal issues. We all have personal problems but, hard as it is sometimes, we have to get on with life. We keep being reminded about his brother and his father all the time and I have the utmost sympathy for him in losing two loved ones, so close to him but if we are being brutally honest, we all want to see him knuckle down and prove to them and us that he is capable of adapting to life in the PL. A number of our players were being questioned as whether they could make the step up to this level and thankfully, most of them have, albeit via a step learning curve.
We are in the serious business now and we cannot afford to indulge any player. We cannot afford to give anyone leeway or excuses. They have to reach a satisfactory level of performance on a regular basis. Not the occasional cameo.
Its in his hands to prove to those us who have serious doubts, that he can change, adapt and improve his game.

nwgull · Mar 11, 2018

Mo Gosfield said:
Those that expected him to light up the PL, were, I'm afraid, wearing rose-tinted Championship spectacles. We all indulged his foibles, his tantrums, his slight eccentricity in the 2nd tier because of his potential to win games at that level but we needed to examine more closely whether his impact and effect in the Championship could transfer itself to the much more demanding higher level.
Would highly paid, talented players in the PL allow him the time and space to twist and turn and turn again and practise his party pieces?
An extravagance afforded him in the Championship, unlikely to be repeated in the street-wise and clued up PL. Would he get away with giving the ball away as much at the higher level? Knocky has always been wasteful on the ball but at Second tier level it is likely to be punished less and we, as fans were more tolerant. Would the savvy smart players at the highest level realise that here was a player on the edge, whose confidence can swing from sky-rocket high to moody petulance in seconds? Would the increased pressure on him see more cracks appearing and more exploitation from opponents.
From his own angle....the following.
1) It was obvious we needed a playmaker in the PL and sure enough. a very good one arrived in the shape of Gross. How would Knocky react to losing his main role of set-piece taker.
2) How far would he be prepared to " rein in " his game. To become less selfish ( when his selfishness was his strength in the Championship ) To restrict his numerous attempts to score worldies from 25 yards that invariably end up in row Z because of his lack of shooting technique from distance.
3) How much more would he be prepared to learn about himself and his game at the highest level? Would he appreciate that the PL is all about quick, simple, accurate football and that it is no place for ' overplaying '

Watching him yesterday, disappointed, frustrated and saddened me in equal measure. We all want him to do well but there were too many flaws on show at Goodison. Too many fans keep falling back on the excuse that his is wrestling with personal issues. We all have personal problems but, hard as it is sometimes, we have to get on with life. We keep being reminded about his brother and his father all the time and I have the utmost sympathy for him in losing two loved ones, so close to him but if we are being brutally honest, we all want to see him knuckle down and prove to them and us that he is capable of adapting to life in the PL. A number of our players were being questioned as whether they could make the step up to this level and thankfully, most of them have, albeit via a step learning curve.
We are in the serious business now and we cannot afford to indulge any player. We cannot afford to give anyone leeway or excuses. They have to reach a satisfactory level of performance on a regular basis. Not the occasional cameo.
Its in his hands to prove to those us who have serious doubts, that he can change, adapt and improve his game.

Any chance you could summarise that to a length that I can be arsed to read? Ta.

B-right-on · Mar 11, 2018

When he was subbed last week at home v The Arse he threw a right strop. He does need to tone down his "heart in the sleeve' stuff and knuckle down to learn and improve like some of the others have (Dunk, Duffy, Stephens etc...)

There's a point where this becomes a liability to the team as shown in the Everton game.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Mar 11, 2018

Player kicks ball in other player's face. Other player gets the red mist. Nothing much else to see here. Astonished how some folk seem to think this is a subject for their GCSE sociology thesis.... :shrug:

Mo Gosfield · Mar 11, 2018

nwgull said:
Any chance you could summarise that to a length that I can be arsed to read? Ta.

Yes, no problem.....just read the last sentence.

Mo Gosfield · Mar 11, 2018

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
Player kicks ball in other player's face. Other player gets the red mist. Nothing much else to see here. Astonished how some folk seem to think this is a subject for their GCSE sociology thesis....

If you think these recent posts are only prompted by Knocky's petulance yesterday , then you are way off the mark.

Charlies Shinpad · Mar 11, 2018

He was shocking from the first ten minutes in yesterday
Gave away possession and corners and as for their first goal. What was he doing with that pass then allowed the man a free run past him
His good games are too infrequent at this level sadly
There is no I in team

_mark_ · Mar 11, 2018

Bang average player, hope he never plays for the club again.

Herr Tubthumper · Mar 11, 2018

nwgull said:
Any chance you could summarise that to a length that I can be arsed to read? Ta.

It’s not that long and it makes some very good points.

nigeyb · Mar 11, 2018

Mo Gosfield said:
Those that expected him to light up the PL, were, I'm afraid, wearing rose-tinted Championship spectacles. We all indulged his foibles, his tantrums, his slight eccentricity in the 2nd tier because of his potential to win games at that level but we needed to examine more closely whether his impact and effect in the Championship could transfer itself to the much more demanding higher level.
Would highly paid, talented players in the PL allow him the time and space to twist and turn and turn again and practise his party pieces?
An extravagance afforded him in the Championship, unlikely to be repeated in the street-wise and clued up PL. Would he get away with giving the ball away as much at the higher level? Knocky has always been wasteful on the ball but at Second tier level it is likely to be punished less and we, as fans were more tolerant. Would the savvy smart players at the highest level realise that here was a player on the edge, whose confidence can swing from sky-rocket high to moody petulance in seconds? Would the increased pressure on him see more cracks appearing and more exploitation from opponents.
From his own angle....the following.
1) It was obvious we needed a playmaker in the PL and sure enough. a very good one arrived in the shape of Gross. How would Knocky react to losing his main role of set-piece taker.
2) How far would he be prepared to " rein in " his game. To become less selfish ( when his selfishness was his strength in the Championship ) To restrict his numerous attempts to score worldies from 25 yards that invariably end up in row Z because of his lack of shooting technique from distance.
3) How much more would he be prepared to learn about himself and his game at the highest level? Would he appreciate that the PL is all about quick, simple, accurate football and that it is no place for ' overplaying '

Watching him yesterday, disappointed, frustrated and saddened me in equal measure. We all want him to do well but there were too many flaws on show at Goodison. Too many fans keep falling back on the excuse that his is wrestling with personal issues. We all have personal problems but, hard as it is sometimes, we have to get on with life. We keep being reminded about his brother and his father all the time and I have the utmost sympathy for him in losing two loved ones, so close to him but if we are being brutally honest, we all want to see him knuckle down and prove to them and us that he is capable of adapting to life in the PL. A number of our players were being questioned as whether they could make the step up to this level and thankfully, most of them have, albeit via a step learning curve.
We are in the serious business now and we cannot afford to indulge any player. We cannot afford to give anyone leeway or excuses. They have to reach a satisfactory level of performance on a regular basis. Not the occasional cameo.
Its in his hands to prove to those us who have serious doubts, that he can change, adapt and improve his game.

Sadly I think you've probably nailed it - will be interesting to see if he gets back in the team at the end of his suspension, and also what happens at the end of the season, especially if we stay up.

OzMike · Mar 11, 2018

nwgull said:
Any chance you could summarise that to a length that I can be arsed to read? Ta.

He probably can't and I agree with all the words there that I took the time to read.

jimhigham · Mar 11, 2018

I’ve just seen the challenge in question. Very poor indeed. From the moment he copped the ball in his face he seemed resolved on revenge. Not an ounce of surprise in the resultant red card. Unacceptable. We shall just have to trust that Chris will have the necessary words with him.

OzMike · Mar 11, 2018

He seems to be getting Leon Knight Syndrome.
Will be interesting to see if he gets back in the team for the remaining games and if he doesn't, then he will be shipped out next season.
It's a team game.

vegster · Mar 11, 2018

This is an amazingly quick Hero>Zero even for NSC. I suppose at every club there is a player elevated to hero and always someone who gets the brunt of being " Not fit for the Shirt " very odd for that to be the same player.

Deadly Danson · Mar 11, 2018

vegster said:
This is an amazingly quick Hero>Zero even for NSC. I suppose at every club there is a player elevated to hero and always someone who gets the brunt of being " Not fit for the Shirt " very odd for that to be the same player.

It really is. It may be my imagination but I seem to remember he's been given standing ovations on his last two matches at the Amex with his song being sung round all sides of the stadium and Hughton obviously thinks he's done ok as he's kept March out for weeks. Disappointing yesterday, let the team down and he hasn't hit the heights this season but some of the bedwetting on here (eg "I hope he never plays for the club again") is utterly ridiculous. Still it keeps them in practice for the full bedwetting season when the transfer window opens.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Mar 11, 2018

Mo Gosfield said:
If you think these recent posts are only prompted by Knocky's petulance yesterday , then you are way off the mark.

You can get to a point where a player just can't win. In itself the episode was embarrassing, but the filleting he's getting isn't justifid by that alone.....I just wonder whether the burgeoning charge sheet is entirely justified or fair. Perhaps it is. I'm not sure.

Edit: just read properly your long post and don't disagree. Its posts by others suggesting for exaple, that he should never play for us again, that prompted my response. I don't think his performances this season, taking yesterday out of the equation, means he's the new Leon Knight (another comment I read....).

Withdean11 · Mar 12, 2018

Some silly over reactions on here. It was a bad challenge (but you will see worse) and he wasn't having the best game, but despite what you will read on here, Knocky is having a decent season. We will need him back in the team ASAP.

nigeyb · Mar 12, 2018

Of course he's a good player. Is he good enough for the Prem though? Does he have the consistency? Many players in the squad have unequivocally answered "yes" to the first question, I'd say the jury's still out with Knocky.

He doesn't do himself any favours with his regular displays of petulance. Chris Hughton clearly rates him but we also know he (and most managers) also insist no player is bigger than the team and everyone must knuckle down and do their bit. Knocky has definitely got better at tracking back and pressing but I wonder if the reaction at being subbed against Arsenal, and now this ludicrous response to getting a ball in the face at Everton, might not have convinced CH that he's not got the temperament, or the consistency, to be part of his squad going forward.

If we get relegated he would again become a key player as his ability at that level is not in doubt.

Perhaps his suspension will be for the best. A chance to reflect and get his head straight for the last few games, if he gets picked.

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[Albion] So it turns out that Anthony Knockaert really IS better than Ozil...

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