[Football] VAR to be used at the World Cup

Easy 10 · Jan 22, 2018

Marty___Mcfly said:
Pretty sure VAR at the World Cup was agreed ages ago.

It does probably still need work- one good point on the way it is running in this country is that maybe they need more than one ref watching the screens to see all angles quickly.

Another interesting point is what do you do as a player if you get flagged offside but you’re not sure you were offside? There is a chance the call is wrong and will be reversed so on that basis should you now keep going and try to score? Which previously might have got you booked?

Tricky choice- I kind of think I would always keep going and shoot now- as you might get the goal allowed which is worth the risk of a booking.

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Exactly what I was discussing with a mate the other day. The mantra is "you play to the whistle". So here's a scenario.

A player goes through on goal, and the lino (incorrectly) flags for offside. The whistle goes straight away to stop the game (as it does), but the player sticks the ball in the net anyway. The VAR says "hang on ref, you need to look at this - he was onside".

Whats the call ?

BensGrandad · Jan 22, 2018

Easy 10 said:
Exactly what I was discussing with a mate the other day. The mantra is "you play to the whistle". So here's a scenario.

A player goes through on goal, and the lino (incorrectly) flags for offside. The whistle goes straight away to stop the game (as it does), but the player sticks the ball in the net anyway. The VAR says "hang on ref, you need to look at this - he was onside".

Whats the call ?

A goal on the face of it, that is the whole point of VAR as it stands now the defending side would have got away with it. The only question would be about the time between the whistle going and the player shooting for goal. Obviously if it is 10 or 20 secs the goal wouldnt stand. It would be left to the discretion of the ref.

Easy 10 · Jan 22, 2018

Simster said:
The fact is that if the World Cup 2018 was the goal for VAR, then this process should have started 2 years ago. Personally, I see it as a solution that simply HAS to be implemented. The only thing is, it has to be done properly. In many ways it reminds me of when the backpass rule was implemented - so many people high profile pundits moaned about that changing the way the game would be played because goalkeepers aren't good with their feet (Gary Lineker was a particularly harsh critic). But guess what, keepers learned and the game MASSIVELY improved as a spectacle once it was implemented.

A solution to what though Simster ?
Wrong decisions are and always have been part of the game. VARS will help sometimes, but they will not eradicate them. However, in order to accommodate it, a whole RAFT of legislation is having to be brought in. I just think its a really, really poor fit for football, a game that flows without the constant "natural" breaks for review, like in NFL and cricket. Non-decisions when the game goes on are going to be particularly problematic IMO.

Easy 10 · Jan 22, 2018

BensGrandad said:
A goal, that is the whole point of VAR as it stands now the defending side would have got away with it. The only question would be about the time between the whistle going and the player shooting for goal. Obviously if it is 10 or 20 secs the goal wouldnt stand.

Thats the POINT !
Players are told to play to the whistle. If they hear it and stop, and the guy sticks it away ?? Jesus.

{edit}

And you also want a stopwatch on it ? This is sounding better and better.

Stat Brother · Jan 22, 2018

Easy 10 said:
Thats the POINT !
Players are told to play to the whistle. If they hear it and stop, and the guy sticks it away ?? Jesus.

No point waving your hand about, nobody is coming to tag you out.
You started this - you finish it.

Iggle Piggle · Jan 22, 2018

Easy 10 said:
Exactly what I was discussing with a mate the other day. The mantra is "you play to the whistle". So here's a scenario.

A player goes through on goal, and the lino (incorrectly) flags for offside. The whistle goes straight away to stop the game (as it does), but the player sticks the ball in the net anyway. The VAR says "hang on ref, you need to look at this - he was onside".

Whats the call ?

Here's one from the Dutch league

https://youtu.be/h9Z_dXhrPQU

BensGrandad · Jan 22, 2018

I am sure the powers that be will come up with answers as the system is used and faults appear.

Stat Brother · Jan 22, 2018

Iggle Piggle said:
Here's one from the Dutch league

https://youtu.be/h9Z_dXhrPQU

What's the problem?
Beyond wondering how the ref missed the penalty, in the first place, I don't see how this is (or would become) a massive talking point.

trueblue · Jan 22, 2018

Easy 10 said:
I think the main issue is that its not been implemented very well. Nobody at home and more importantly nobody in the stadium knows what the hell is going on when the ref stands there and puts his finger in his ear. Nothing is being communicated to anyone about what is being reviewed, or why.
.

It’s not exactly difficult to work out though. If it’s a red card then obviously they’re looking at the challenge and making sure it’s the right player.

If it’s a goal they’re just checking it was onside and legitimate.

If it’s a dodgy challenge in the box, they’re checking whether it should have been a penalty.

That’s it. I don’t get why it’s a big deal.

Easy 10 · Jan 22, 2018

Stat Brother said:
What's the problem?
Beyond wondering how the ref missed the penalty, in the first place, I don't see how this is (or would become) a massive talking point.

Imagine that happening in a game you actually gave a shit about, and if the pen was a bit more debatable. It'll happen at some point.

Easy 10 · Jan 22, 2018

trueblue said:
It’s not exactly difficult to work out though. If it’s a red card then obviously they’re looking at the challenge and making sure it’s the right player.

If it’s a goal they’re just checking it was onside and legitimate.

If it’s a dodgy challenge in the box, they’re checking whether it should have been a penalty.

That’s it. I don’t get why it’s a big deal.

If you saw and then read the post-match reaction from that Chelsea v Arsenal game, with the (extended) silent review of something that happened several minutes earlier, you'd know its a long way from ideal. You're sat there for a minute+ while the ref confers with the bloke in Heathrow, until they finally arrive at a verdict. And that was WITHOUT the ref even going to the pitchside monitor, which would've drawn it out even longer.

Sorry chap. Thats just not how I want to watch football.

Stat Brother · Jan 22, 2018

Easy 10 said:
Imagine that happening in a game you actually gave a shit about, and if the pen was a bit more debatable. It'll happen at some point.

It's a shame it didn't happen in the most recent game I gave a shit about.

People can cry all they want about the system.
Chances are they also cried about poor decisions.

Personally I don't agree with VAR, but it's here, it's not going away and I see no point conjuring up potential mistakes, just wait for the real ones.

As Sim said, any major (even most of the minor) law changes are met with howls of disapproval, primarily by those who don't or refuse to understand, yet in 5 years time people will be amazed how the game was played, PreVARs.

Easy 10 · Jan 22, 2018

Stat Brother said:
It's a shame it didn't happen in the most recent game I gave a shit about.

People can cry all they want about the system.
Chances are they also cried about poor decisions.

Personally I don't agree with VAR, but it's here, it's not going away and I see no point conjuring up potential mistakes, just wait for the real ones.

As Sim said, any major (even most of the minor) law changes are met with howls of disapproval, primarily by those who don't or refuse to understand, yet in 5 years time people will be amazed how the game was played, PreVARs.

You're right, its coming, and we're stuck with it. And I'm not entirely against new things being introduced - goal line technology has been a complete success.
But this is something else entirely. It will resolve SOME issues, but it will create a whole new raft of brand new ones that have not yet fully played out. All I will say chap, is be careful what you wish for.

Stat Brother · Jan 22, 2018

Easy 10 said:
You're right, its coming, and we're stuck with it. And I'm not entirely against new things being introduced - goal line technology has been a complete success.
But this is something else entirely. It will resolve SOME issues, but it will create a whole new raft of brand new ones that have not yet fully played out. All I will say chap, is be careful what you wish for.

I'm certainly not wishing for it.
Although it's fairly comical for you to be in favour of goal line technology but not VARs.
It's physically impossible to have one and not the other.
That would be like inventing one telephone and I saying 'we'll stop there'. :lol:

Easy 10 · Jan 22, 2018

Stat Brother said:
I'm certainly not wishing for it.
Although it's fairly comical for you to be in favour of goal line technology but not VARs.
It's physically impossible to have one and not the other.
That would be like inventing one telephone and I saying 'we'll stop there'.

Thats bollocks though. Goal line technology is a simple line call. Its binary - either its over the line, or its not. The stuff VARS is being brought in for is for subjective decisions on fouls, many of which are a LONG way away from being simple black-and-white decisions. Its an interpretation - along with the added complication of the game not always being "dead" when its being called into play.

Of COURSE its possible to have one without the other. We've had it for a couple of seasons now !

Iggle Piggle · Jan 22, 2018

Stat Brother said:
What's the problem?
Beyond wondering how the ref missed the penalty, in the first place, I don't see how this is (or would become) a massive talking point.

I dont see a problem with it. In 10 years time the issues will have gone, we will all be used to VAR and hopefully be remembering that time Palace scored, it was disallowed for a Zaha handball and we run up the other end and scored.

Albion my Albion · Jan 22, 2018

Stat Brother said:
What's the problem?
Beyond wondering how the ref missed the penalty, in the first place, I don't see how this is (or would become) a massive talking point.

Exactly. Getting the call correct is much more important than calling back a play and calling it voided. If it goes against the Albion because Glen Murray uses his arm to stop a shot from going in the goal I'm still all for it even if the Albion score a goal in the time between the hand ball and when the whistle blows. It's very hard to see a hand ball many times. The correctness of a ref's call should be most important.

AZ Gull · Jan 22, 2018

Easy 10 said:
Exactly what I was discussing with a mate the other day. The mantra is "you play to the whistle". So here's a scenario.

A player goes through on goal, and the lino (incorrectly) flags for offside. The whistle goes straight away to stop the game (as it does), but the player sticks the ball in the net anyway. The VAR says "hang on ref, you need to look at this - he was onside".

Whats the call ?

Easy 10 said:
Thats the POINT !
Players are told to play to the whistle. If they hear it and stop, and the guy sticks it away ?? Jesus.

{edit}

And you also want a stopwatch on it ? This is sounding better and better.

I stand to be corrected, but my understanding of it is that in the scenario you paint, once the ref blows the whistle (for offside) that ends the passage of play, so even if the striker still sticks the ball in the net there will be no VAR awarding of a goal because no goal has been scored (play was dead). In other words, once the ref's whistle blows, the ability to "alter" the incorrect offside decision by VAR is lost.

What this will lead to, perhaps, is referees allowing play to continue for a few seconds after an offside flag, just in case something like you say materialises.

Albion my Albion · Jan 22, 2018

Easy 10 said:
If you saw and then read the post-match reaction from that Chelsea v Arsenal game, with the (extended) silent review of something that happened several minutes earlier, you'd know its a long way from ideal. You're sat there for a minute+ while the ref confers with the bloke in Heathrow, until they finally arrive at a verdict. And that was WITHOUT the ref even going to the pitchside monitor, which would've drawn it out even longer.

Sorry chap. Thats just not how I want to watch football.

You may want to watch football that way but you already watch football with delays for injury. I think it very necessary that a call have a much better chance to be correct than now when many are wrong. Terribly wrong, and many here have continually protested calls are very wrong.

Easy 10 · Jan 22, 2018

AZ Gull said:
I stand to be corrected, but my understanding of it is that in the scenario you paint, once the ref blows the whistle (for offside) that ends the passage of play, so even if the striker still sticks the ball in the net there will be no VAR awarding of a goal because no goal has been scored (play was dead). In other words, once the ref's whistle blows, the ability to "alter" the incorrect offside decision by VAR is lost.

What this will lead to, perhaps, is referees allowing play to continue for a few seconds after an offside flag, just in case something like you say materialises.

And if there's a millisecond between the whistle going, and the ball hitting the net ?.

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[Football] VAR to be used at the World Cup

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