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[Albion] "You're black and you stink" Rodriquez comment to Bong? - FA say not proven
- Thread starter El Presidente
- Start date
mejonaNO12 aka riskit
Well-known member
Corrected for you.
Why can't people just wait for the investigation (where those making a judgement have, you know, EVIDENCE and stuff) rather than declaring their judgement on something they don't actually know the facts about? I find it bizarre. And no, don't get your knickers in a twist. I'm not saying he's made it up.
Gaetan believes he has received racial abuse. That's as much as any of us know.
the wanderbus
Well-known member
I can see that it may be a good comparison if your were a total f***wit
If you had half a brain you'd realise that gingers are just as likely to be offended by remarks about their appearance as any other group deemed to be different.....unless you were a total ****wit.
lawros left foot
Glory hunting since 1969
That’s very ****witist, ****wits have feelings too you know.
Neville's Breakfast
Well-known member
Indeed, offensiveness is offensiveness whether it’s about someone’s skin colour or anything else. If guilty of offfensiveness the WBA player should be banned. There are too many people who, on the one hand call out all skin colour rudeness while on the other are happy to dish out abuse when skin colour is not involved. The political threads on NSC are testament to this.
Hungry Joe
SINNEN
There is an important and fundamental difference though, which is why certain characteristics such as race, gender, sexuality and religion have legal protection. It is bigger than the individual and any offence they may or may not take. Unlike the aforementioned groups, people with ginger hair, to use yours and the wanderbus' example, have not suffered from historical, endemic and often institutionalised discrimination and persecution. That's why it's not a valid argument or comparison, no matter how hurt Sidwell might be by any comments (pretty sure he loves most of it to be honest, especially his special song!).
LamieRobertson
Not awoke
Any idea how long this type of investigation normally takes?
I'm not sure this one is done yet nearly two weeks on: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jan/06/roberto-firmino-liverpool-everton-mason-holgate
LamieRobertson
Not awoke
Ta for reply
aolstudios
Well-known member
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
Professor Robert Bartlett, an expert in medieval history at St Andrews University, says the discrimination dates back to Ancient Egypt, where the god Set was often depicted with pale skin and red-coloured hair and associated with terrible events such as earthquakes, thunderstorms and eclipses. Human sacrifices of redheads to appease his rage were supposedly made by worshippers.
But for non-royal redheads, life was harder. In the 15th century, people with ginger hair were accused of being witches and burnt at the stake, while others were persecuted for their pale skin, which was seen as a sign of vampiric tendencies. (following on from a paragraph about Elizabeth 1)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/9788039/Bullied-and-worse-for-being-ginger.html
Eggmundo
U & I R listening to KAOS
- Jul 8, 2003
- 3,466
Is it only demographics who have been party to large scale historical incidences of persecution who are exempt?
What's your criteria?
Neville's Breakfast
Well-known member
By your logic though we only take action after a period of persecution which hardly seems sufficient. I prefer my standards which are to dislike equally rudeness in all its guises. One thing we can agree on is that if the WBA charge is proven their player should face a pretty severe punishment for what you call racism and I call offensiveness.
Hungry Joe
SINNEN
That's not what I'm saying at all, I'm just pointing out a fundamental difference. Of course offensive language and behaviour shouldn't be tolerated per se, but you have to draw a line somewhere when it comes to legal protection, otherwise the courts and the 'system' would be clogged up with relatively minor cases where offence has been taken for any perceived characteristic. If someone can't / won't accept that there is a difference in scale and that, due to historical abuse, some 'groups' should be afforded a higher level of protection than others then I'm at a loss as to how to convince them. Of course this is not a static, and if for example technological advances mean that certain other groups become the victims of persecution or disadvantage, say through genetic traits, then society and the law has to adapt.
But as it stands today this isn't the case, but racism, sexism, homophobia, anti-Semitism etc are still very much an issue, and have been for centuries. As for 'your standards', excuse me if I find that statement a little patronising. With all due respect, you don't know me or my standards, I'm simply arguing a well established and accepted (by the majority) viewpoint.
As to your final point, IF it is proven that Rodriguez made reference to Bong's skin colour as part of the insult, how can that be anything other than racism?
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Hungry Joe
SINNEN
That's an interesting bit of historical context. Not sure anyone could seriously argue that this sort of persecution or discrimination still exists though, or has done so in recent history, so I still don't accept it's a valid comparison.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
The worse one I heard of recently is about albinos. In Malawi and Tanzania, the witchdoctors tell people that using body parts from albinos will cure any disease, so they are attacked and dimembered. That's what it feels like to be persecuted for the colour of your skin. Albinoism is a genetic defect. but they live in fear of their lives, for mumbo jumbo witchcraft.
http://metro.co.uk/2017/02/20/witch-doctors-are-harvesting-albinos-body-parts-for-medicine-6460173/
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20170425-the-silent-killer-of-africas-albinos
Hungry Joe
SINNEN
That is abhorrent, and where it happens albinos should absolutely be given every legal and other protection available. What's your point though? (apologies if there isn't a point and you're just sharing some examples of persecution).
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
Yes, I was, and it is based on skin colour.
Hungry Joe
SINNEN
And if this, or something similar, was happening in the UK or EU then it would be a protected characteristic (albino). That's not a skin-colour or race example though, as this is specific to albinos and not caucasians, so I still don't get your point.
Neville's Breakfast
Well-known member
By referring to my standards I certainly did not intend to be patronizing. I suppose it’s quite ironic given our conversation about causing offence and it perhaps to a degree backs up the point you make. All I was really saying though is that personally I dislike rudeness, offensiveness, disrespectful behavior and all forms of discrimination. I don’t rank them. Perhaps the only way we differ is on the language we use to describe what we dislike.