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[Palace] Unwelcome Palace Fans



C

crookie

Well-known member
Jun 14, 2013
3,312
Back in Sussex
Herr Tubthumper said:
Isn’t trespass now part of the Criminal Justice Act....which is criminal?
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Isn't because trespass is only a civil offence that police have 'difficulties' moving travellers on ? Sure that's what I remember but there hasn't been a thread on this for a while

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Marty___Mcfly

Marty___Mcfly

I see your wicked plan - I’m a junglist.
Sep 14, 2011
2,251
Apologies I’m not 100% clear what is going on / what will happen next-

At the moment it looks like these fans are banned from attending the Amex but are free to attend any other ground in the country? And no follow up from the police.

Seems like they have got off pretty lightly..


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Westdene Seagull

Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patron
Oct 27, 2003
21,024
The arse end of Hangleton
Hastings gull said:
How very naïve and selective . . Had you been marched around the town by the Police, as you put it, you would have ben part of a potentially violent mob, clearly intent on trouble. Why else would you have arrived hours before kick-off in what was clearly an organised attempt to disrupt. Had you arrived from London with, say, a coupe of mates, and gone for a quiet drink as thousands of others manage to do, then you would not have been marched anywhere. Don't tell me otherwise -my son in law had the unenviable duty of keeping the Palace rabble from our own trouble makers, as well as dealing with those clearly the worse for wear which made them even more aggressive.
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Hastings gull said:
Of course they are. They are on duty very early in the morning for this game, and want to provoke as many fans as possible to make their jobs immeasurably harder, as the day goes on. Obviously the more people who are hurt the better and even better still if there is considerable damage . .
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Hastings gull said:
Would Brighton Station not be packed prior to the match? Would not having this mob make the situation that much worse? Would it not make more sense to bring them on after the huge bulk of Albion fans had left? Of course fans will arrive in Brighton early, as it is a good place to visit, compared to many other cities/towns, as you say, but the snarling mob of fans on this occasion ( and given the rivalry which is an excuse for violence) that the Police had to deal with could hardly be described as "absolutely nothing sinister". I am passing this on to my son in law who gets called to patrol this sort of thing - he will love your description.
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Hastings gull said:
I don't now but over the years have attended many. It is perfectly possible to avoid being marched around, if you want to, as you well know.
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Hastings gull said:
I do, as it has been well documented. I am questioning your logic, which you have not understood. You said that the Place fans were generally well behaved ( I like the word "generally" ) until they met the Brighton mob. Given that the Palace mob was late arriving, that must mean that the Brighton fans had ignored the start of the match, according to what you state. This seems rather unlikely.
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I could have quoted almost every post you've made in this thread to highlight your ignorance but got bored adding them.

The police DO purposely provoke football fans. I once met a Met police officer in a bar whilst on holiday - one that happened to police Palace games. He openly admitted that a lot of officers enjoyed policing football games as, in his words, "it gives us the opportunity to put the boot in. Besides, who's going to believe a football fan over a police officer if they complain ?'.

Do you remember that match at Withdean against Sheffield Utd where Prosser accused fans of being racist ? I was working for the club at the time and the crowd got understandably restless at Prosser's decisions. Stewards had everything under control - despite what some think most fans had a decent relationship with the stewards ( most stewards then were also fans ). It got a little heated and suddenly the police commander decided to send in his storm troopers with batons drawn - dozens of them. This was against the wish of the Chief Steward and Safety Officer and the officers still decided to hide behind the line of stewards they were that brave. This provoked some fans even more - thankfully stewards calmed things down. I spoke to a police sergeant after the game and asked why they did that and his response - "We need to show them who's boss and the boys like a good ruck".

As for your ridiculous statement "It is perfectly possible to avoid being marched around" - utter drivel. I've had it a number of times. Perfect example was a match at Cardiff. The then Mrs W and myself had friends in Cardiff and so went to stay with them over a weekend of Cardiff v BHA. We all had tickets and shared a car to a local industrial estate. We went our separate ways as they had home tickets and we had away tickets. Stuck in a cage next to coin throwing Cardiff fans Mrs W and I decided we would leave a few minutes early to enable us to get back to the car unhindered. Stewards refused to let us leave as South Wales Police had issued an order that ALL Albion fans would be marched back to the station. A heated discussion ensued between me and the stewards and South Wales 'finest' turned up and threatened me with arrest if I continued to insist on leaving. They told me in no uncertain terms that we were to be marched to the station regardless of what we wanted. By chance I then spotted a couple of Sussex Police officers and approached them. They pointed out to their South Wales counterparts and the stewards that it was illegal to keep us in the stadium against our wishes if we haven't done anything wrong. The South Wales officers finally conceded there was nothing they could do to stop us leaving. If we hadn't argued then we WOULD have been marched somewhere we didn't want to go against our wishes. And it wouldn't have been the only time I've been hearded by police against my will if it had happened.

You appear to have a very rose tinted view of the police .... probably thanks to your son-in-law.
 




A1X

A1X

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 1, 2017
17,821
Deepest, darkest Sussex




Birdie Boy

Birdie Boy

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2011
4,108
LamieRobertson said:
How do you know it’s been done on the orders of the Police?
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I never said it was. I am suggesting that the police could have insisted that all cctv evidence be sent to them and between them and palace get the wrong'uns banned way before this game as it was 6 weeks ago.

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H

Hastings gull

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2013
4,635
Westdene Seagull said:
I could have quoted almost every post you've made in this thread to highlight your ignorance but got bored adding them.

The police DO purposely provoke football fans. I once met a Met police officer in a bar whilst on holiday - one that happened to police Palace games. He openly admitted that a lot of officers enjoyed policing football games as, in his words, "it gives us the opportunity to put the boot in. Besides, who's going to believe a football fan over a police officer if they complain ?'.

Do you remember that match at Withdean against Sheffield Utd where Prosser accused fans of being racist ? I was working for the club at the time and the crowd got understandably restless at Prosser's decisions. Stewards had everything under control - despite what some think most fans had a decent relationship with the stewards ( most stewards then were also fans ). It got a little heated and suddenly the police commander decided to send in his storm troopers with batons drawn - dozens of them. This was against the wish of the Chief Steward and Safety Officer and the officers still decided to hide behind the line of stewards they were that brave. This provoked some fans even more - thankfully stewards calmed things down. I spoke to a police sergeant after the game and asked why they did that and his response - "We need to show them who's boss and the boys like a good ruck".

As for your ridiculous statement "It is perfectly possible to avoid being marched around" - utter drivel. I've had it a number of times. Perfect example was a match at Cardiff. The then Mrs W and myself had friends in Cardiff and so went to stay with them over a weekend of Cardiff v BHA. We all had tickets and shared a car to a local industrial estate. We went our separate ways as they had home tickets and we had away tickets. Stuck in a cage next to coin throwing Cardiff fans Mrs W and I decided we would leave a few minutes early to enable us to get back to the car unhindered. Stewards refused to let us leave as South Wales Police had issued an order that ALL Albion fans would be marched back to the station. A heated discussion ensued between me and the stewards and South Wales 'finest' turned up and threatened me with arrest if I continued to insist on leaving. They told me in no uncertain terms that we were to be marched to the station regardless of what we wanted. By chance I then spotted a couple of Sussex Police officers and approached them. They pointed out to their South Wales counterparts and the stewards that it was illegal to keep us in the stadium against our wishes if we haven't done anything wrong. The South Wales officers finally conceded there was nothing they could do to stop us leaving. If we hadn't argued then we WOULD have been marched somewhere we didn't want to go against our wishes. And it wouldn't have been the only time I've been hearded by police against my will if it had happened.

You appear to have a very rose tinted view of the police .... probably thanks to your son-in-law.
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I would not for one moment dispute what you are saying -if you say that is what happened, then that is exactly what happened. No, it is not drivel -you seem to have been an unfortunate victim of being marched around, but that does not mean that it happens to everyone. I can see that if you are in the ground, then this could easily happen as you are a captive audience; I was thinking rather of my experiences when younger, when a large Albion mob arrived at a station, having got a particular train, and I kept well back, as I didn't want to be put on a bus to go straight to the ground, or some such situation.The irony, which I think has escaped you, is that in all the years you have been supporting the Albion, you quote very isolated examples, and then use your limited bad experiences to form a general view on the actions of the Police, and then accuse me of having a tainted view. It clearly applies to you.

For the record, every organisation will contain those whose attitude is less than perfect, as I am sure you would agree - the Police will be no different, and I am not here to defend actions of those who let the side down. With all respect, and I genuinely don't wish to be disrespectful, or superior, I do tend to hear far more of what goes on than you do - what you describe is not unknown, I agree, but equally what you describe is not the norm. Police officers in charged and potentially violent situations face very difficult decisions, and largely do their utmost to face down the violent minority, and balance that with protecting the innocent majority. Sometimes if fails of course, but sadly it always will do.

You will notice, I hope, that I don't spout off and resort to accusations of ignorance and drivel, and you might like to reflect on that.
 


sully

sully

Dunscouting
Jul 7, 2003
7,834
Worthing
The Wookiee said:
https://www.brightonandhoveindepend...-at-crystal-palace-league-match-1-8318750/amp

So Palace ban their fans for one game, BHAFC ban our fans for the whole season ?
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I think it's actually that Palace were happy not to ban anyone. A few of their fans have been advised that they won't be allowed into the AMEX. That is a decision from Brighton, not Palace.

I guess that this may not apply to all of those who broke in last time, as they didn't have permission to enter the ground (a ticket) then, either.
 














Dougie

Dougie

Well-known member
Jan 11, 2012
5,703
The Large One said:
For what?

Do you know the contents of the letter?
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No I don’t but if my club are not going to support the fans turned away I wholeheartedly support the palace trust who will .
 








Dougie

Dougie

Well-known member
Jan 11, 2012
5,703
The Large One said:
And with that in mind (i.e. you don't know what's int he letter), what are the circumstances in this instance that would bring about a Letter of Complaint?
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I’d imagine it’s fans with tickets who got turned away and marched to the train station to be sent home .
 


The Large One

The Large One

Who's Next?
Jul 7, 2003
52,343
97.2FM
Dougie said:
I’d imagine it’s fans with tickets who got turned away and marched to the train station to be sent home .
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If you honestly believe that's the case, I can't see that there's much of a case to answer. Speaking to someone from FYP, his contention after speaking to many people caught outside is that, after the exit gates were opened and stormed, it seemed an understandable decision not to allow any more people in. I very much doubt the police will apologise for taking Health & Safety seriously. It was also a decision, I understand, not taken by Sussex Police alone. They were in close liaison with Brighton and Palace stewards, and colleagues from the Met.

Personally, I suspect it's something more - although the daft Twitter thing was retracted and an apology was issued, so I doubt it's that too - but that is also a guess.

Additionally, I normally have a lot of time for FSF and FSF Faircop on Twitter, but when debating issues over the subsequent days with Brighton fans, their response to us was very snotty, and not really interested in hearing alternate points of view - esp. from Brighton fans. @ROSM can back this up.
 


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