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[Football] Are negative tactics killing the Premier League?



Guinness Boy

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Jul 23, 2003
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Inspired by last night's West Ham game and a chat on Twitter with my Man City mate, do people think that the PL brand is now being harmed by the number of teams in the bottom half setting out purely to stifle the top 6?

Last night's game was AWFUL and we did similar up at Wembley, just to lesser effect. Has so much money been poured in to this league that teams will now do anything to stay in it, including ruining the very product the money pays for?

I think YES. I'm not going to put a POLL though, because I know it annoys @Harry Wilson's Tackle
 


dazzer6666

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Mar 27, 2013
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Inspired by last night's West Ham game and a chat on Twitter with my Man City mate, do people think that the PL brand is now being harmed by the number of teams in the bottom half setting out purely to stifle the top 6?

Last night's game was AWFUL and we did similar up at Wembley, just to lesser effect. Has so much money been poured in to this league that teams will now do anything to stay in it, including ruining the very product the money pays for?

I think YES. I'm not going to put a POLL though, because I know it annoys @Harry Wilson's Tackle

Yes. Compare last night's game to, say, ours v Bournemouth where both teams appeared to want to win. Top 6 v Top 6, and bottom 14 v bottom 14 are generally OK, but not T6 v B14 usually..........................
 


MattBackHome

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
11,689
Inspired by last night's West Ham game and a chat on Twitter with my Man City mate, do people think that the PL brand is now being harmed by the number of teams in the bottom half setting out purely to stifle the top 6?

Last night's game was AWFUL and we did similar up at Wembley, just to lesser effect. Has so much money been poured in to this league that teams will now do anything to stay in it, including ruining the very product the money pays for?

I think YES. I'm not going to put a POLL though, because I know it annoys @Harry Wilson's Tackle

Jonathan Wilson's recent article on this is typically good (and persuasive).

Edit - https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2018/jan/04/premier-league-possession-manchester-city
 


SAC

Well-known member
May 21, 2014
2,533
Some teams appear happy just not to get slaughtered by the big clubs, the aim is to try for a 0-0 but if this isn't possible try not to concede too many. Not just the PL though, you see it all the time in internationals with the smaller clubs, even when they are losing, with 10 men behind the ball.

In the PL it is probably fine for a season or two but after a while fans will become bored of it and not attend. I saw West Brom matches against both Manchester clubs on MOTD and there were loads of empty seats.
 


el punal

Well-known member
Inspired by last night's West Ham game and a chat on Twitter with my Man City mate, do people think that the PL brand is now being harmed by the number of teams in the bottom half setting out purely to stifle the top 6?

Last night's game was AWFUL and we did similar up at Wembley, just to lesser effect. Has so much money been poured in to this league that teams will now do anything to stay in it, including ruining the very product the money pays for?

I think YES. I'm not going to put a POLL though, because I know it annoys @Harry Wilson's Tackle

It would annoy me too! :D

It has taken us so long (and other clubs as well) to get to this level that it is understandable for new and current struggling teams to play safety first. Having said that I've enjoyed our stay in the Premier League despite the fact that it's more important not to lose rather than go for the win. Newcastle away being that example. As many people have commented - "Enjoy the ride!" :albion2:
 






Stat Brother

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Jul 11, 2003
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IS it really any different to us last year in the championship when you think of the teams that parked the bus at the amex
Or all the other years in all the divisions?

It is now the media has decided it's a thing.
 


cjd

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2006
6,069
La Rochelle
IS it really any different to us last year in the championship when you think of the teams that parked the bus at the amex

I suppose the only real difference is the vast sums of money Sky ( and it's subscribers) are paying to be entertained. I wonder how long the gravy train will last whilst continually putting on 'one sided' and totally defensive football matches ?
 






Renegade

New member
Nov 24, 2017
451
This is as a result of football bodies not properly dealing with the situation of a very few teams buying the league in various countries apart from imposing fair play which doesn't seem to work.When you have the lower prem sides,especially the newly promoted ones who haven't had zillions in Prem money yet,playing zillionaires like City then how are they supposed to compete?They will play for a draw or as is the growing fashion rest key players for the league games they think they can win.The more money the few rich big teams spend,the worse the situation will get.The media should shut up and realise the small teams are just being realistic because they have been forced to be so.
 


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
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its nothing new though, when did Mourinho coin the "park the bus" phrase? over 10 years ago.
 




Guinness Boy

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IS it really any different to us last year in the championship when you think of the teams that parked the bus at the amex

Or all the other years in all the divisions?

It is now the media has decided it's a thing.

Sorry, fundamentally disagree. Spurs v West Ham and Newcastle v Man City were like no Championship game I'd ever seen and very few teams parked the bus against us - even Wigan had a go on promotion day. But for a real look in to the fear associated with this league our game up at Newcastle this season was totally different to last season's with very similar squads and the same managers.

When you have a team with a history of football that's almost a self parody like West Ham playing 9 at the back it's time to say enough. The negative ethos of Mike Bailey and many, many others (the Stoke boss who said if you want entertainment go to the circus) set football back a decade in the early 80s. We're in danger of doing the same now IMO.
 


Monkey Man

Your support is not that great
Jan 30, 2005
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Neither here nor there
You can't pump that much money into the upper tier of football, and create such a yawning chasm with the leagues below, without some kind of effect on the tactics of the lesser teams desperate to maintain their PL status for accounting reasons.

West Ham were stubborn and unadventurous last night until that spectactular goal, and it made for boring viewing.

For the neutrals, most Brighton away performances probably seem incredibly tedious too. I'm not bored, purely because I support Brighton and understand the need for defensive tactics in most of those games, and there's a weird thrill in watching us neutralise more talented players this season as we try to establish ourselves at a higher level. Not sure whether that will wear off next season if we do stay up, however.
 


Stat Brother

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The dominance of certain teams has increased. That's backed up by the stats and our eyes.

What more so than:-

2011/12
2012/13
2013/14
2014/15

2016/17 seasons?
(I couldn't be bothered to check further back)

5 of the top 6 places have been taken by the 'big 6'.
There's some amazing outliers in that, Newcastle Southampton & Everton, but the point still stands, nothing's changed.
It's up to 'us' to be there to pick off the weak one, I reckon that's soon to be Arsenal, or in the 2015/16 perfect storm season, weak 2.
 




Couldn't Be Hyypia

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Nov 12, 2006
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Negative tactics (and you could argue that in fact they are defensive tactics - somewhat less judgmental) are a consequence of the income that is gained by being in the Premier League.

There is such a huge gap between the Prem and the Championship that staying in the Prem at all costs has become the mantra.

Therefore, negative tactics are not killing the Premier League - the mountain of TV money is. But we all knew that any way.
 




MattBackHome

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
11,689
Negative tactics (and you could argue that in fact they are defensive tactics - somewhat less judgmental) are a consequence of the income that is gained by being in the Premier League.

There is such a huge gap between the Prem and the Championship that staying in the Prem at all costs has become the mantra.

Therefore, negative tactics are not killing the Premier League - the mountain of TV money is. But we all knew that any way.

Exactly.

The mountain of money and the inequality between the top 6 and everyone else.
 


Stat Brother

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Jul 11, 2003
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West west west Sussex
Sorry, fundamentally disagree. Spurs v West Ham and Newcastle v Man City were like no Championship game I'd ever seen and very few teams parked the bus against us - even Wigan had a go on promotion day. But for a real look in to the fear associated with this league our game up at Newcastle this season was totally different to last season's with very similar squads and the same managers.

When you have a team with a history of football that's almost a self parody like West Ham playing 9 at the back it's time to say enough. The negative ethos of Mike Bailey and many, many others (the Stoke boss who said if you want entertainment go to the circus) set football back a decade in the early 80s. We're in danger of doing the same now IMO.

So are you saying at no point in the past has a horrendously underperforming, under funded, totally out classed across the pitch, team like Newcastle were v City ever said, 'lock it up chaps and we'll try and get out of here with a point'?
 




Guinness Boy

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So are you saying at no point in the past has a horrendously underperforming, under funded, totally out classed across the pitch, team like Newcastle were v City ever said, 'lock it up chaps and we'll try and get out of here with a point'?

No - I'm saying the majority of the teams in the bottom half are doing it week in week out against the big teams and that it's become a necessary tactic of choice.

Negative tactics (and you could argue that in fact they are defensive tactics - somewhat less judgmental) are a consequence of the income that is gained by being in the Premier League.

There is such a huge gap between the Prem and the Championship that staying in the Prem at all costs has become the mantra.

Therefore, negative tactics are not killing the Premier League - the mountain of TV money is. But we all knew that any way.

Exactly.

The mountain of money and the inequality between the top 6 and everyone else.

Yes, sort of what I'm getting at. The more money there is involved and less equally it is distributed the more pragmatic the tactics of the "others".
 


Ninja Elephant

Doctor Elephant
Feb 16, 2009
18,855
My old 5 a side team were pretty poor, we used to have to sit in and try to counter. We had a very good goalkeeper so we relied on him keeping us in the game. Our general tactics were to defend like mad in the first half, slow the game down, etc - and then second half hope the opposition would tire and we could counter. We had some successes, beating the league winners 4-0 was a special night under the lights at Waterhall, but generally we were put away and often fairly comfortably.

At the top level of the game, all teams should be able to play to win the game but many don't. We don't. So far, we've played to not get slaughtered, but we've had chances in all of the games with the big 6. We could have taken the lead against Liverpool and City at the Amex, especially. If only!
 



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