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[Football] Sir Nick Clegg ?



L

Lincoln Imp

Well-known member
Feb 2, 2009
5,964
seagulls4ever said:
There is absolutely no excusing how the Lib Dems so blatantly misled those who voted for them. And they have deservedly paid the price for it. Their manifesto pledged to abolish tuition fees - fine, they were in a coalition, so they cannot do this. However, they could have simply kept things as they were, instead of tripling tuition fees and all the problems that came with that (which were obvious at the time, but are now getting media attention).

Let us not forget how they went around the country before the election and signed an NUS pledge reading “I pledge to vote against any increase in fees in the next parliament and to pressure the government to introduce a fairer alternative”. All 57 of those elected signed this pledge. 21 kept their promise.

All the parties have not kept pre-election promises. The Lib Dem one sticks in the mind because it was one of their main policies and aimed at the young who were more likely to vote for them. They misled their voters. Tuition fees should have been one of their red lines. The reason they are deservedly remembered for it is because they so blatantly said one thing before the election, and did the complete opposite afterwards.

Someone who misled their voters like that should never be awarded a Knighthood.
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I understand what you are saying but with respect I don't think you have added anything to what has been said before - I've agreed he was unwise to sign the NUS document before the election but your suggestion that the LibDems "could have simply kept things as they were" when fees were discussed in Cabinet completely misinterpretes their strength in the Tory dominated coalition. If that coalition had unraveled the potential damage would have been great, as Nick Clegg fully understood. The end result would have been an economy in an even worse place and a Tory government with an overall majority. What price tuition fees then?
 




S

seagulls4ever

New member
Oct 2, 2003
4,338
Lincoln Imp said:
I understand what you are saying but with respect I don't think you have added anything to what has been said before - I've agreed he was unwise to sign the NUS document before the election but your suggestion that the LibDems "could have simply kept things as they were" when fees were discussed in Cabinet completely misinterpretes their strength in the Tory dominated coalition. If that coalition had unraveled the potential damage would have been great, as Nick Clegg fully understood. The end result would have been an economy in an even worse place and a Tory government with an overall majority. What price tuition fees then?
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I think I have but fair enough if you don't. The vote on tuition fees was part of the coalition agreement, agreed before the coalition was officially announced. It should never have become an agreement in the first place, it should have been one of their red lines given it was basically their headline policy which they so easily bargained away. They could have come to an agreement for a stable coalition without bargaining away their tuition fee pledge - as I say, kept things as they were (which for them would have been a compromise). There were plenty of other things they did and could have agreed with the Tories. Once the Lib Dems are part of the government, they can't debate the tuition fee policy further in Cabinet because it's already been agreed as per the coalition agreement. The strength of the Tory dominated coalition is completely irrelevant at this point because they had already agreed abandon their tuition fee pledge, so they can hardly rock up in government and say to the Tories that they have changed their mind. So, your arguments about the coalition unravelling completely miss the point. It should have never got to that stage in the first place.
 






looney

looney

Banned
Jul 7, 2003
15,652
Losers get participation trophies.

Everything thats wrong with this country summed up in this topic.
 




S

seagulls4ever

New member
Oct 2, 2003
4,338
Lincoln Imp said:
There is a danger of tickbox demonising here. To be a lie, an untruth has to be deliberate. The LibDems signed the pre-election tuition fee pledge in good faith, but they were naive to to so. Given the pre-election mathematics they should have realised that there was a possibility, however unlikely, of entering coalition government with the Tories. This prospect came to pass and in order to reach agreement they had to swallow the bitter and (for Clegg) humiliating pill of accepting the senior partner's tuition fee policy. It's what happens in coalitions but you have to look at the wider picture. There were other Downing Street battles the LibDems won that most people except those on the right of the Tory Party would approve of.

You may be pleased that Sheffield Hallam has a new MP. Some would say that the present incumbent looks a pretty dodgy character when compared to his mild-mannered predecessor.
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I'm not sure I agree with your definitions of lies (I think lies can occur through negligence) but in any case there were plans before the election to abandon the tuition fee pledge if they were part of a coalition.

A month before Clegg pledged in April to scrap the "dead weight of debt", a secret team of key Lib Dems made clear that, in the event of a hung parliament, the party would not waste political capital defending its manifesto pledge to abolish university tuition fees within six years. In a document marked "confidential" and dated 16 March, the head of the secret pre-election coalition negotiating team, Danny Alexander, wrote: "On tuition fees we should seek agreement on part-time students and leave the rest. We will have clear yellow water with the other [parties] on raising the tuition fee cap, so let us not cause ourselves more headaches."
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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/nov/12/lib-dems-tuition-fees-clegg
 


S

seagulls4ever

New member
Oct 2, 2003
4,338
Coalition agreement author accuses the Nick Clegg of 'talking crap' about his broken pledge:

Nick Clegg was actually “keen” to treble student tuition fees and is “talking crap” by claiming he did not want to vote for the policy, a former coalition colleague has said.

Last night the Liberal Democrat leader told a Question Time audience that he was “between a rock and a hard place” on the broken pledge.

“In politics, as in life, sometimes you can’t do exactly what you want,” he argued. “I was absolutely between a rock and a hard place five years ago on that particular policy.”

But James O'Shaughnessy, David Cameron’s former director of policy, says he was in the room in 2010 when the policy was being discussed and that Mr Clegg was “keen” for it to go ahead.

“[Nick] Clegg [is] talking crap on tuition fees,” he tweeted. “He wasn't between 'rock and hard place'. I was in the room when he decided to vote for it. He was keen.”
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...mer-coalition-colleague-reveals-10218326.html
 








pastafarian

pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
JC Footy Genius said:
Good old honourable Cleggars propped up the Tory Government and lead his party to a devastating defeat ....




... now vying with Blair to be the poster boy for all extreme undemocratic loonerati types. :facepalm:
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Beware the Sir Clegg The Untrustworthy types of this world.
They will lie without blinking and tell you they respect the vote to Leave (ie we should leave the EU) and they just hope to reverse it at another time (after we have left) which is of course a democratic process.
What they really mean is they dont respect it at all,hate the fact the vote went they way it did, how could people be so stupid not to think the same as them, and lets do anything to ignore the vote now and reverse its outcome before it has a chance of finishing the process to enact it,…… but lets not admit that chaps.
####### weasel undemocratic loon and so are the people that subscribe to his thinking.
 


Pretty pink fairy

Pretty pink fairy

Banned
Jan 30, 2008
31,981
pastafarian said:



Beware the Sir Clegg The Untrustworthy types of this world.
They will lie without blinking and tell you they respect the vote to Leave (ie we should leave the EU) and they just hope to reverse it at another time (after we have left) which is of course a democratic process.
What they really mean is they dont respect it at all,hate the fact the vote went they way it did, how could people be so stupid not to think the same as them, and lets do anything to ignore the vote now and reverse its outcome before it has a chance of finishing the process to enact it,…… but lets not admit that chaps.
####### weasel undemocratic loon and so are the people that subscribe to his thinking.
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spot on.
regards
DR
 




L

Lincoln Imp

Well-known member
Feb 2, 2009
5,964
pastafarian said:



Beware the Sir Clegg The Untrustworthy types of this world.
They will lie without blinking and tell you they respect the vote to Leave (ie we should leave the EU) and they just hope to reverse it at another time (after we have left) which is of course a democratic process.
What they really mean is they dont respect it at all,hate the fact the vote went they way it did, how could people be so stupid not to think the same as them, and lets do anything to ignore the vote now and reverse its outcome before it has a chance of finishing the process to enact it,…… but lets not admit that chaps.
####### weasel undemocratic loon and so are the people that subscribe to his thinking.
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Does the principle of completely changing a policy that people have voted for but before it is enacted apply in all cases, or just in the areas you feel strongly about?
 




Pavilionaire

Pavilionaire

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
30,569
GT49er said:
Well I am, but I wouldn't be the #crushingbore that introduced Brexit to this thread, would I? (see post #5, kettle, black, pot, calling etc.)

Strange how the desperate seem to try to bring their agenda on to any thread where it might get an airing, eh?
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My first posting has 16 likes - your first 5 had one - was that your mum?!?

Anyway, there's nothing more desperate than someone who posts four times in quick succession, each posting a minor variation of the theme that you hate Clegg.

You would do better to stop repeating yourself (#crushingbore) and try and develop your arguments.
 




JC Footy Genius

JC Footy Genius

Bringer of TRUTH
Jun 9, 2015
10,568
pastafarian said:
Beware the Sir Clegg The Untrustworthy types of this world.
They will lie without blinking and tell you they respect the vote to Leave (ie we should leave the EU) and they just hope to reverse it at another time (after we have left) which is of course a democratic process.
What they really mean is they dont respect it at all,hate the fact the vote went they way it did, how could people be so stupid not to think the same as them, and lets do anything to ignore the vote now and reverse its outcome before it has a chance of finishing the process to enact it,…… but lets not admit that chaps.
####### weasel undemocratic loon and so are the people that subscribe to his thinking.
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100% correct and their contempt for our democratic process and the Uk electorate is of course just validating one of the reasons why people told them to take a running jump.
 


H

Hampster Gull

New member
Dec 22, 2010
13,462
pastafarian said:



Beware the Sir Clegg The Untrustworthy types of this world.
They will lie without blinking and tell you they respect the vote to Leave (ie we should leave the EU) and they just hope to reverse it at another time (after we have left) which is of course a democratic process.
What they really mean is they dont respect it at all,hate the fact the vote went they way it did, how could people be so stupid not to think the same as them, and lets do anything to ignore the vote now and reverse its outcome before it has a chance of finishing the process to enact it,…… but lets not admit that chaps.
####### weasel undemocratic loon and so are the people that subscribe to his thinking.
Click to expand...


The way you paint the world you would think the vote was 98:2 not 52:48. The country is split and he has a voice for an element of the population. He is no poster boy but still relevant....

Awaits usual tirade of bile :bla:
 








Barry Izbak

Barry Izbak

U.T.A.
Dec 7, 2005
7,324
Lancing By Sea
No one in politics winds me up as much as this prick.
Ex poss the old guy who is the lib demand leader now.
Utter to55er.
Sir Nick Clegg just about sums up the honours system
 




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