[Football] The Ashes and Fourth Test.

Mo Gosfield · Dec 28, 2017

BensGrandad said:
Great Innings from Cook and also good to see Broad do something with both bat and ball again. As a youngster he promised much as a batsmen to be an allrounder and good to see him get back to that . Perhaps i and others are writing these two off too soon and they will play 1 more season at home but I see this as their last Ashes tour.

He has spent the last few years giving his wicket away, as he doesn't like the quicks. All you ask from a tailender is that he tries to get in line and make it difficult for the bowlers. Broad doesn't mind dishing it out but he can't take it himself and has no bottle. He backs away and the opposition smell the fear straight away. By the law of averages, he was going to get some runs one day but don't hold your breath.

dazzer6666 · Dec 28, 2017

BensGrandad said:
Great Innings from Cook and also good to see Broad do something with both bat and ball again. As a youngster he promised much as a batsmen to be an allrounder and good to see him get back to that . Perhaps i and others are writing these two off too soon and they will play 1 more season at home but I see this as their last Ashes tour.

Mo Gosfield said:
He has spent the last few years giving his wicket away, as he doesn't like the quicks. All you ask from a tailender is that he tries to get in line and make it difficult for the bowlers. Broad doesn't mind dishing it out but he can't take it himself and has no bottle. He backs away and the opposition smell the fear straight away. By the law of averages, he was going to get some runs one day but don't hold your breath.

Broad has never been psychologically right since he got hit in the face by Aaron in 2015 - he's admitted having nightmares about it and talked about his mental scars and how it has affected his game. That's why he has 'no bottle'. Could happen to any pro sportsman. Doubt he'll ever get back to his prior form, but getting a few runs might help.

Mo Gosfield · Dec 28, 2017

dazzer6666 said:
Broad has never been psychologically right since he got hit in the face by Aaron in 2015 - he's admitted having nightmares about it and talked about his mental scars and how it has affected his game. That's why he has 'no bottle'. Could happen to any pro sportsman. Doubt he'll ever get back to his prior form, but getting a few runs might help.

Some it affects, some it doesn't...it depends on character. Mike Gatting had his nose blown to bits and still came back fighting. Many players have been hit around the head and face. Its part of the game. I suffered a broken nose and separately, a cracked rib whilst batting ( when quite young ) and played without any after effects for years.
I have sympathy for Broad but all the time he dishes it out to the opposition, physically and mentally but then shows discomfort when batting, will only result in one outcome.

dazzer6666 · Dec 28, 2017

Mo Gosfield said:
Some it affects, some it doesn't...it depends on character. Mike Gatting had his nose blown to bits and still came back fighting. Many players have been hit around the head and face. Its part of the game. I suffered a broken nose and separately, a cracked rib whilst batting ( when quite young ) and played without any after effects for years.
I have sympathy for Broad but all the time he dishes it out to the opposition, physically and mentally but then shows discomfort when batting, will only result in one outcome.

Correct - don't think I said anything different - but this is how it affected him. My cousin got hit in the very first village game we played together - he never played again. It's why he's batting like a scared village no 11 most of the time now and I don't see it changing.

spring hall convert · Dec 28, 2017

BensGrandad said:
Great Innings from Cook and also good to see Broad do something with both bat and ball again. As a youngster he promised much as a batsmen to be an allrounder and good to see him get back to that . Perhaps i and others are writing these two off too soon and they will play 1 more season at home but I see this as their last Ashes tour.

Cook is only 33, which isn't that old for a batsman, especially one that relies on patience and technique rather than his eye. It's not beyond the realms of possibility he could catch Sachin as the top run scorer of all time, 5 more years of 800 runs gets him there. He may also have his sights set on playing the most Test matches of any player which again looks like it'll take another 5 years. A couple more years gets him to no.2 in both those marks.

Given the problems we've had replacing Strauss (arguably we still haven't), I'd be happy for Cookie to go a lot longer than one more year. It's all about whether he wants to I guess....

It'll be a lot more difficult for Broad, although Jimmy is looking about as good as he ever has at 35. Those guys careers have definitely been helped out by having their workloads managed in a way unheard of 15-20 years ago.

Pavilionaire · Dec 28, 2017

I think Sachin Tendulkar is out of sight. Cook would have to play another 50 test matches, so that's 4 more years of cricket.

I think it is more likely he'd target the home Ashes series in 2019 as his international swansong. In between, he gets to play against Pakistan and India at home, Sri Lanka and the West Indies away (nice tours) and spend Christmas 2018 in the UK.

Winter 2019 is South Africa and New Zealand - long distances. I fancy he'd like to give things a good go for Essex in 2020, then call it quits from the game.

dangull · Dec 28, 2017

Graham Gooch was still batting well at test level close to 40. Ronnie O'sullivan 42, Phil Taylor 50's, George Foreman 49

It can be done.

Eeyore · Dec 28, 2017

dangull said:
Graham Gooch was still batting well at test level close to 40. Ronnie O'sullivan 42, Phil Taylor 50's, George Foreman 49

It can be done.

Gooch scored a double century against New Zealand at 41.

Questions · Dec 28, 2017

dangull said:
Graham Gooch was still batting well at test level close to 40. Ronnie O'sullivan 42, Phil Taylor 50's, George Foreman 49

It can be done.

I’d love to see Phil Taylor’s tits wobbling as he goes for a quick single in Melbourne. :lolol:

spring hall convert · Dec 28, 2017

As carrots go, the chance to be the leading Test Match run scorer of all time has got to be a pretty big one if you ask me.

Though Cook, has never really seemed the personal glory type. Anyhow, he's under no immediate pressure for his place, the spot alongside him is still up for grabs!

Garry Nelson's teacher · Dec 28, 2017

For me this Test match is yet another example of how cricket (or sport in general) can confound prediction. I speak as one who was writing Cook and Broad off before the match and am very happy to be proved wrong (if only temporarily in one or both cases). In many years of watching sport I've been totally wrong so many times that I should never 'pronounce' - but it won't stop me. The glory of the game is that it can make a monkey of players, 'experts' and armchair warriors. Long may it continue.

dazzer6666 · Dec 28, 2017

Garry Nelson's teacher said:
For me this Test match is yet another example of how cricket (or sport in general) can confound prediction. I speak as one who was writing Cook and Broad off before the match and am very happy to be proved wrong (if only temporarily in one or both cases). In many years of watching sport I've been totally wrong so many times that I should never 'pronounce' - but it won't stop me. The glory of the game is that it can make a monkey of players, 'experts' and armchair warriors. Long may it continue.

Spot on.....!

Gwylan · Dec 28, 2017

Brighton Lines said:
Gooch scored a double century against New Zealand at 41.

40 used to be no age for a test batsman: George Gunn Snr played his last test at 50, Jack Hobbs and Frank Woolley were both aged 47, Wally Hammond was 44 while Cyril Washbrook was 41. Even in my lifetime, I've seen Brian Close play at 46, Colin Cowdrey at 44 and Tom Graveney at 42. Fast bowlers struggle beyond 35, but batsmen can go for ages.

vegster · Dec 28, 2017

Gwylan said:
40 used to be no age for a test batsman: George Gunn Snr played his last test at 50, Jack Hobbs and Frank Woolley were both aged 47, Wally Hammond was 44 while Cyril Washbrook was 41. Even in my lifetime, I've seen Brian Close play at 46, Colin Cowdrey at 44 and Tom Graveney at 42. Fast bowlers struggle beyond 35, but batsmen can go for ages.

Depends on when their eyes go, especially when facing 90mph bowlers.... ah and also, it was acceptable to make a gesture towards fielding a ball, nowdays every ball is chased down to the boundary rope in order to save every run.

vegster · Dec 28, 2017

dazzer6666 said:
Broad has never been psychologically right since he got hit in the face by Aaron in 2015 - he's admitted having nightmares about it and talked about his mental scars and how it has affected his game. That's why he has 'no bottle'. Could happen to any pro sportsman. Doubt he'll ever get back to his prior form, but getting a few runs might help.

He still goes out and bats though ? That takes guts.

dangull · Dec 28, 2017

vegster said:
He still goes out and bats though ? That takes guts.

Yeah, and we have the example of Phil Hughes to show it can be a dangerous game. dazzer I'm sure has a lot of bottle facing 90mph bowlers though.

Gwylan · Dec 28, 2017

vegster said:
Depends on when their eyes go, especially when facing 90mph bowlers.... ah and also, it was acceptable to make a gesture towards fielding a ball, nowdays every ball is chased down to the boundary rope in order to save every run.

Not sure about the batting - Close played against Holding and Roberts, he was specifically recalled to play against them, and Cowdrey played against Lillee and Thomson. I don't think many modern bowlers are faster than that lot (and there's better protection these days).

But it's a fair point about the fielding, I remember Cowdrey waddling after the ball and looking ill at ease. Graveney retired because he found fielding difficult not because his batting had faded.

But players are looked after more these days; this year, we saw two Pakistan players retire - one at 42 and one at 40 - if Pakistan can play older batsmen, I'm sure other teams could.

PILTDOWN MAN · Dec 28, 2017

dangull said:
Graham Gooch was still batting well at test level close to 40. Ronnie O'sullivan 42, Phil Taylor 50's, George Foreman 49

It can be done.

Hope you're not being serious using two games one where you walk round a table and the second you f@@king stand still

Pevenseagull · Dec 28, 2017

vegster said:
Depends on when their eyes go, especially when facing 90mph bowlers.... ah and also, it was acceptable to make a gesture towards fielding a ball, nowdays every ball is chased down to the boundary rope in order to save every run.

At 46 with deteriorating eyesight I would deal with 90mph deliveries in the same way I would have done 20 years ago, when I had the eyes of a HAWK.

vegster · Dec 28, 2017

Gwylan said:
Not sure about the batting - Close played against Holding and Roberts, he was specifically recalled to play against them, and Cowdrey played against Lillee and Thomson. I don't think many modern bowlers are faster than that lot (and there's better protection these days).

But it's a fair point about the fielding, I remember Cowdrey waddling after the ball and looking ill at ease. Graveney retired because he found fielding difficult not because his batting had faded.

But players are looked after more these days; this year, we saw two Pakistan players retire - one at 42 and one at 40 - if Pakistan can play older batsmen, I'm sure other teams could.

Close was recalled because he simply would not be bounced out like all the current batsmen and rather took the hits on his body, he didn't score much, Cowdrey struggled against Lillie and Thommo as his best days were behind him then.

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