[Film] Post Film Discussion Star Wars TLJ WARNING don’t view will contain spoilers

midnight_rendezvous · Dec 29, 2017

Bold Seagull said:
BUT, we don't know how any other force persons, jedi or otherwise developed? We don't know who had force abilities pre-training, who didn't. That leaves the story writing open. Same with Luke projecting himself. After death appearances weren't about pre Obi Wan as far as we know, Qui Gon could communicate from beyond which is how he supposedly taught Obi Wan, and perhaps Yoda. Luke then takes this a step further, perhaps through deep meditation in his solitude on the island. It still fits the narrative. They didn't have to just 'stick' with what was established in the original trilogy. It is annoying the fanboys, but most people appear to be enjoying the films.

If so many people are enjoying it why is it getting such poor reviews? 53% on rotten tomatoes, the lowest of ANY of the Star Wars films.

The issue is, which I keep saying, that regardless of what you say, it is established in the universe that training to be a force user takes years, regardless of skill pre training. That lore is established over 1000 years of training Jedi. You can’t just dismiss it because you want one super powered character. And even the most powerful Jedis took years to hone their craft. Look at Luke, even though he had trained between each film in the OT and then trained with Yoda he STILL couldn’t use the force proficiently. He struggled to maintain his concentration and failed to raise the X Wing out of the swamp. It’s not until the third and final film, and roughly a further year after the events of Empire, that we see Luke use the force to any degree of proficiency. Rey did it in the first film with no training to an extent that the audience had never seen before in the universe. I get that she is naturally good but she’s TOO good and too overpowered for her to be relatable.

I add that my issue is not that she is powerful in the force but she is too proficient without training and experience. If her uses of the force were more raw and uncontrolled I’d be ok with it.

Triggaaar · Dec 29, 2017

Tyrone Biggums said:
Most people can do bits of different stuff. One character can just do it all better than everyone else without hardly breaking a sweat.

Like Messi

Easy 10 · Dec 29, 2017

Uncle Spielberg said:
There was no middle ground though, the whole post just took this piss out of it. I thought the battle on the salt planet was epic. I really don't know what people expect from a film nowadays

Well from what I've seen on this thread, I think some people tend to take Star Wars waaaaay too seriously tbh. Its a fantasy sci-fi with monsters and lasers and space ships, aimed primarily at kids to shift some plastic tat from the stores, but also something that adults can enjoy too on some level too. Thats it.

I expected to be entertained, and on the whole, I was. Well worth the £5 I spent. Was it a lifechanging experience, were any of the scenes the best I have ever seen ? Mmmnah. It was GOOD though - isn't that enough ?

Uncle Spielberg · Dec 29, 2017

IMDB average

7.6/10
230,605

Mellotron · Dec 29, 2017

Easy 10 said:
Well from what I've seen on this thread, I think some people tend to take Star Wars waaaaay too seriously tbh. Its a fantasy sci-fi with monsters and lasers and space ships, aimed primarily at kids to shift some plastic tat from the stores, but also something that adults can enjoy too on some level too. Thats it.

I expected to be entertained, and on the whole, I was. Well worth the £5 I spent. Was it a lifechanging experience, were any of the scenes the best I have ever seen ? Mmmnah. It was GOOD though - isn't that enough ?

Agreed. The amount of analysis for a children’s film is incredible. I like Star Wars but take it as seriously as I would a Harry Potter film.

Taybha · Dec 29, 2017

Harry Potter isn't real though .

Buzzer · Dec 29, 2017

Tyrone Biggums said:
And everyone shit canned a few of the previous movies, so why can't these movies be shit canned for rubbish writing as well?

You're missing the point(s). So many of the originals had parts that were flaky that you are trying to set a standard that none of the originals were ever subjected to. And it's a sci-fi, supernatural film which you are picking apart for being unbelievable. The whole premise of the genre demands that you suspend disbelief.

I'm a big SW fan, I went to see it again last night at the iMax at Waterloo (where I bumped into Wozza quite randomly) but nowhere near the levels of my brother's family incl. his kids, his wife and her brother who are all the biggest Star Wars fans you could ever hope to meet. It's an obsession with them but none of them indulge in your kind of fandom. No offence intended but your approach is ruining any chance of enjoying the film for what it is.

I'm with Uncle Spielberg on this, it's a great film. If you are after a bit of escapism that the whole family can enjoy then take them along to this film. If you are after something altogether far more deep and meaningful with plenty of political metaphors then I suggest Battleship Potemkin.

LlcoolJ · Dec 29, 2017

Buzzer said:
You're missing the point(s). So many of the originals had parts that were flaky that you are trying to set a standard that none of the originals were ever subjected to. And it's a sci-fi, supernatural film which you are picking apart for being unbelievable. The whole premise of the genre demands that you suspend disbelief.

I'm a big SW fan, I went to see it again last night at the iMax at Waterloo (where I bumped into Wozza quite randomly) but nowhere near the levels of my brother's family incl. his kids, his wife and her brother who are all the biggest Star Wars fans you could ever hope to meet. It's an obsession with them but none of them indulge in your kind of fandom. No offence intended but your approach is ruining any chance of enjoying the film for what it is.

I'm with Uncle Spielberg on this, it's a great film. If you are after a bit of escapism that the whole family can enjoy then take them along to this film. If you are after something altogether far more deep and meaningful with plenty of political metaphors then I suggest Battleship Potemkin.

Well said. Star Wars has always been about suspending disbelief and enjoying the ride. I thoroughly enjoyed the film and my 11 year old son LOVED it. Anything else is just twaddle.

Buzzer · Dec 29, 2017

Can I just add that if you do get a chance, then please do fork out extra to see the film at the iMax at Waterloo. It's an experience unlike any other. The best way to describe it would be that a 2D showing at the Odeon would be the equivalent to listening to an album of music in mono compared to surround sound stereo of the 3D experience.

If nothing else, the acoustics and sheer size of the screen makes it so much more immersive. Maybe some people would have enjoyed the film more if they had seen it as I have.

LlcoolJ · Dec 29, 2017

Buzzer said:
Can I just add that if you do get a chance, then please do fork out extra to see the film at the iMax at Waterloo. It's an experience unlike any other. The best way to describe it would be that a 2D showing at the Odeon would be the equivalent to listening to an album of music in mono compared to surround sound stereo of the 3D experience.

If nothing else, the acoustics and sheer size of the screen makes it so much more immersive. Maybe some people would have enjoyed the film more if they had seen it as I have.

I thought the 3D actually worked really well on this film too unlike some others.

Buzzer · Dec 29, 2017

LlcoolJ said:
I thought the 3D actually worked really well on this film too unlike some others.

Agreed. It's a proper 3D film. The jumping into hyperspace through the Imperial cruiser was worth the admission money alone. That moment in the film will be spoken of for decades as a perfect example of how to use silence and slo-mo.

Meade's Ball · Dec 29, 2017

I had a rare trip out, and when looking to avoid the family in law, decided to use one of my free joint membership Picturehouse tickets to go see it. You know, overall it was ok, if a little flat. The process of transfer from old crew to new is challenging, and I felt it bestraddled this journey a little uncomfortably at times - the rubbery creatures holler of replica and nostalgia, yet some of the digital graphics, particularly of Snoke, were not great, so I was unsure of what the latter was an ode to. The other challenge is in how the new characters can see the trilogy through, and beyond, on their own. Rey is given enough time to be given possibility, but I didn’t find much in the others, such as Finn. Oscar Isaacs is a good enough actor to bring that mixture of derring do and development to the character, and I thought he did well. Domhnall Gleeson has a shocking time of it though, and his comedy sections were painful. The evil people, in fact, do not do well. I didn’t feel this nazistic element to them as they marauded through the universe, and Kylo Ren’s juvenileness didn’t have me feel that he could lead an army, or outwit Snoke.
The direction was ok, but I felt JJ Abrams would have brought a seering finesse to it that wasn’t there - the salt planet’s colour was impressive, but that felt like an Abrams look, but a little without the fiery clash.
Yoda seems to muddle his sentences when he chooses, which I found a bit silly.
Overall though it was an enjoyable enough caper, with its good moments, if not outstanding ones.

The Clamp · Dec 29, 2017

Kids don't have as much patience as we did back in the 70's and 80's. Thei world is one of instant gratification, their every query, every demand, every whim met with the touch of a screen.
It's why the long game of films made up to the dawn of broadband will never float for the mainstream audience anymore. Wait 2 hours for a films crescendo? No need, with cgi they can ram a film full of action from the get go. That's why 12 year olds love it and anyone over 35 thinks it's a fishing net full of shit.

Uncle Spielberg · Dec 29, 2017

The Clamp said:
Kids don't have as much patience as we did back in the 70's and 80's. Thei world is one of instant gratification, their every query, every demand, every whim met with the touch of a screen.
It's why the long game of films made up to the dawn of broadband will never float for the mainstream audience anymore. Wait 2 hours for a films crescendo? No need, with cgi they can ram a film full of action from the get go. That's why 12 year olds love it and anyone over 35 thinks it's a fishing net full of shit.

Not really

One Love · Dec 29, 2017

Luke93 said:
The introduction of Jedi powers as a spirit annoyed me the most.

What did you think it was then?

Buzzer · Dec 29, 2017

looney said:
Ben Shapirro pointed that there is no gravity in space so you cant bomb a dreadnought like a WW2 bomber. Missed that one.

This is a very good example of the very selective criticism that superficially sounds justified but is ultimately just navel-gazing. Ben Shapiro is right that the gravitational force in space is much weaker BUT he's arbitrarily applying physics from the real world into specific scenes but doesn't have any problem with there being normal gravity within a spaceship that allows people to walk normally, for water leaking out of a suit to drop to the ground or cute creatures splatter against windows when the Millenium Falcon makes a sharp turn.

What's more if you want a real world solution to the conundrum of falling bombs in space then you don't need to look any further than a target-locating system within the bombs. I'm genuinely puzzled by what these critics hope to achieve with this nit-picking.

The Clamp · Dec 29, 2017

Uncle Spielberg said:
Not really

You're an exception.

Buzzer · Dec 29, 2017

The original Death Star was blown up by proton torpedoes that could turn 90 degrees from their original trajectory. I presume all the purists are fine with that and the fact that neither the Empire or resistance have given any further thought to weapons that can shoot around corners.

Jeep · Dec 29, 2017

Yes, +1 for the IMAX at Waterloo. I was in the front row today with my 3D specs on. Stunning effects. At one point Luke, Yoda and I were sitting in a circle having a chat. Oh,band a porg landed on my nose. Good fun

Uncle Spielberg · Dec 29, 2017

The Clamp said:
You're an exception.

You certainly are. No doubt about that

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