[Football] A new Selhurst

Uter · Dec 5, 2017

TypicalPalace said:
I hope so! Beggars cant be choosers I suppose. The Arthur is a relic, however nostalgic we all feel it is. We were all expecting the announcement to be the main stand only and most are more than happy with that. As has been mentioned to death before we have quite a few obstacles in our way, theres no alternative sites for a new stadium and theres lots of restrictions on Selhurst so If we get the planning application all through and approved its a massive jump forward for us. Its a little bit pretty face horrible body but meh

I am a bit sceptical about that newspaper report saying that the houses that need to be demolished will need to be CPOed. The timelines aren't realistic if so for a start. Also I think they'd need to demonstrate the development is in the public interest to have a chance of a CPO being granted and a football stand on it's own might not be deemed enough to meet the criteria. I suspect they have already bought them or have reached an agreement with the owners. Disappointing about the Arthur Wait, but presumably that will be next on the list.

Buzzer · Dec 5, 2017

Easy 10 said:
Why will it take 3 years and cost £100m to do ONE stand anyway ? The Amex took 2 years and cost less than that, AND we had to start completely from scratch by excavating the site. Does Disney know what he's doing ?

I remember people asking the same thing about the Amex when Huddersfield's cost £40-odd million and Reading £50m. I'm guessing that major building works in a residential area brings with it additional costs, same with redevelopment.

CPFC G · Dec 5, 2017

Buzzer said:
Looking at it, I reckon a capacity of 34,000 is 2-3000 too much. At some point Palace, like Brighton will get relegated from the Premier League, gates will drop and then those extra seats stick out like a sore thumb. I remember chatting to a few Leicester fans a few years ago when we were in the Championship and they were saying their capacity of 35,000 was way too much for them in that league and it affected the atmosphere at games considerably.

Possibly, We certainly don't need to go any bigger than 34k. Like you say we will go down at some point and gates will drop. Watching Brum playing last night, they had 10k seats empty against a local rival and it does look a bit crap.

fosters headband · Dec 5, 2017

Wozza said:
And, presumably, if Sainsburys and the homeowners don't comply... *taps nose*

View attachment 91735

Lol This has been suggested by a Palace fan on the BBS in the last half hour.

CPFC G · Dec 5, 2017

Easy 10 said:
Brighton & Hove City Council were in favour of the Amex, and it still took 12 years to get permission. And Spurs applied for a CPO for that private family owned business which they needed to have out of the way before they could commence building their new stadium - the owners dug their heels in for years, till in the end, someone turned up and just torched it.

Sainsburys, the council and the homeowners to get onside then. I think 12 months is optimistic.

Why will it take 3 years and cost £100m to do ONE stand anyway ? The Amex took 2 years and cost less than that, AND we had to start completely from scratch by excavating the site and putting an entire infrastructure in place. Does Disney know what he's doing ?

I'd imagine it is far easier to start from scratch rather than redeveloping, As you say plenty of hurdles for the club and the architects to get over before planning is approved.

maffew · Dec 5, 2017

Easy 10 said:
Does Disney know what he's doing ?

No I read on bbs a guy offered to help with the development because he knew some people in his company that had done so work on stadia before. The reply from CPFC2010 was along the lines of "thats very kind. Thank you" Cant remember the rest but it was pretty much yeah that could be useful

Bozza · Dec 5, 2017

CPFC G said:
Watching Brum playing last night, they had 10k seats empty against a local rival and it does look a bit crap.

Are you new to supporting Crystal Palace?

20/10/12 Crystal Palace 2 - 2 Millwall, attendance: 16,124
1/12/12 Crystal Palace 3 - 0 Brighton, attendance: 20,114
2/2/13 Crystal Palace 2 - 1 Charlton, attendance: 17,945

Buzzer · Dec 5, 2017

CPFC G said:
Possibly, We certainly don't need to go any bigger than 34k. Like you say we will go down at some point and gates will drop. Watching Brum playing last night, they had 10k seats empty against a local rival and it does look a bit crap.

Even worse at Boro. I went up there for a Christmas game where there the crowd was 18,000. Seeing about 80 fans behind a goal and empty stand all around them was like something from the 80s.

This might not be a popular view with either Palace or Brighton fans but I reckon we have about the same size support, both hardcore and fairweather. Our crowds plummeted at Gillingham and Withdean because of the grounds. Palace crowds are not what they could be because of their stadium too. A 34K stadium would be too big for us. I know that for sure.

Easy 10 · Dec 5, 2017

Buzzer said:
I remember people asking the same thing about the Amex when Huddersfield's cost £40-odd million and Reading £50m. I'm guessing that major building works in a residential area brings with it additional costs, same with redevelopment.

True, but then Huddersfields stadium opened in 1994 and Readings in 1998. Building costs will have risen significantly since then. And without being snobby about it, I reckon the Amex has been built to a far higher spec than those two stadiums.

£100m still seems a lot for essentially 1 stand to be levelled and rebuilt, given the context of the costs for the Amex. Our entire training ground was "only" £36m, and that's next to a residential area too.

But I'm no expert.

maffew · Dec 5, 2017

Buzzer said:
Even worse at Boro. I went up there for a Christmas game where there the crowd was 18,000. Seeing about 80 fans behind a goal and empty stand all around them was like something from the 80s.

This might not be a popular view with either Palace or Brighton fans but I reckon we have about the same size support, both hardcore and fairweather. Our crowds plummeted at Gillingham and Withdean because of the grounds. Palace crowds are not what they could be because of their stadium too. A 34K stadium would be too big for us. I know that for sure.

I think it would long term, but whats the STH waiting list at now? I think the size we are now is about right albeit a few games a season

Buzzer · Dec 5, 2017

Easy 10 said:
True, but then Huddersfields stadium opened in 1994 and Readings in 1998. Building costs will have risen significantly since then. And without being snobby about it, I reckon the Amex has been built to a far higher spec than those two stadiums.

£100m still seems a lot for essentially 1 stand to be levelled and rebuilt, given the context of the costs for the Amex. Our entire training ground was "only" £36m, and that's next to a residential area too.

But I'm no expert.

Agreed but if that's what it costs, then that must be the going rate for it. I think I remember reading that the cost of steel shot through the roof around 2008-09.

34064 Fighter Command · Dec 5, 2017

Stat Brother said:
The Sainsbury’s site, which is part of the Whitehorse Lane Stand, gloriously shite and tinpot.

Integration with a supermarket was one problem Bolton faced when wanting to improve Burnden Park - they were lucky insofar as they could move out of town to the former Locomotive Works site at Horwich to build the Stadium formerly known as Reebok. Once your next door neighbour has party walls and rights of access over your land (for customers, deliveries or emergency egress) they can get very shirty about you deciding to renege on an (previously) agreed covenant that they consider to be in-perpetuity. Usually requires a mahoosive sweetener to gain their agreement to tear the arrangement up.

Buzzer · Dec 5, 2017

maffew said:
I think it would long term, but whats the STH waiting list at now? I think the size we are now is about right albeit a few games a season

I agree. We know that the Amex has enough pull to keep attracting a lot of fairweather fans, our attendances around the Hyypia era proved that where crowds dropped from 27k to 25k. And this was the point the Leicester fan was making. Our ground still felt pretty full with 25,000 but add an extra 4,000 empty seats and it's a big difference.

oneillco · Dec 5, 2017

Buzzer said:
Even worse at Boro. I went up there for a Christmas game where there the crowd was 18,000. Seeing about 80 fans behind a goal and empty stand all around them was like something from the 80s.

This might not be a popular view with either Palace or Brighton fans but I reckon we have about the same size support, both hardcore and fairweather. Our crowds plummeted at Gillingham and Withdean because of the grounds. Palace crowds are not what they could be because of their stadium too. A 34K stadium would be too big for us. I know that for sure.

That isn't the full story about our crowds; they plummeted when the Goldstone was sold because we had been abandoned by the owners of our club, and Gillingham was a ludicrous 70 miles away. Withdean was ramshackle and with a very limited capacity, but in the seasons we did well we easily could have sold double the 8,000 available tickets for certain matches. I wasn't a season ticket holder then and it was often difficult to get match tickets...

Easy 10 · Dec 5, 2017

Buzzer said:
Agreed but if that's what it costs, then that must be the going rate for it. I think I remember reading that the cost of steel shot through the roof around 2008-09.

You're right, the prices shot up around 2008 but then collapsed just as quickly and has since been fairly stable.

Maybe its just a "London premium" for building and labour costs in the area. I suppose he's built some wiggle room into the costing, being as its actually forcasted as being £75m-£100m. But costs on building projects can easily start to spiral, so it'll be very interesting to watch and see how this all pans out. We had the considerable experience and expertise of Martin Perry and Derek Chapman on board when we put the Amex project out to tender with the designers (KSS) and the builders (Buckingham). I dunno who Disney has helping him with all that side of things. I can't imagine "Brighty" being much use.

Buzzer · Dec 5, 2017

oneillco said:
That isn't the full story about our crowds; they plummeted when the Goldstone was sold because we had been abandoned by the owners of our club, and Gillingham was a ludicrous 70 miles away. Withdean was ramshackle and with a very limited capacity, but in the seasons we did well we easily could have sold double the 8,000 available tickets for certain matches. I wasn't a season ticket holder then and it was often difficult to get match tickets...

Yep, you're spot on. Our support back then was much bigger than the crowd sizes suggested. I hope you agree with me though that it was pleasantly surprising how big the attendances remained and number of STH renewals under Hyyppia and the beginning of Oscar's tenure. I think the stadium plays a big part in that.

hans kraay fan club · Dec 5, 2017

34064 Fighter Command said:
Integration with a supermarket was one problem Bolton faced when wanting to improve Burnden Park -

Yep. 'NORMID'.

Easy 10 said:
Maybe its just a "London premium" for building and labour costs in the area. I suppose he's built some wiggle room into the costing, being as its actually forcasted as being £75m-£100m.

Being in a residential area, any approval will have additional restrictions on the building works - no noisy works (that's basically everything) outside the hours of 8am - 6pm. No weekend work. Restrictions on delivery access, etc. All likely to lengthen the build time, and thus add cost.

Wozza · Dec 5, 2017

Easy 10 said:
You're right, the prices shot up around 2008 but then collapsed just as quickly and has since been fairly stable.

Maybe its just a "London premium" for building and labour costs in the area. I suppose he's built some wiggle room into the costing, being as its actually forcasted as being £75m-£100m. But costs on building projects can easily start to spiral, so it'll be very interesting to watch and see how this all pans out. We had the considerable experience and expertise of Martin Perry and Derek Chapman on board when we put the Amex project out to tender with the designers (KSS) and the builders (Buckingham). I dunno who Disney has helping him with all that side of things. I can't imagine "Brighty" being much use.

North Stand Chat, there.

JonathanLivingstonSeagull · Dec 5, 2017

Simster said:
Here's another shock: if that dogs breakfast ever gets built, I'll bet even the thickest Nigel won't have the front to call our beautiful stadium "the wonky warehouse" anymore.

I think you are underestimating the thickness of Nigels

matbha · Dec 5, 2017

Dougie said:
View attachment 91707

Beautiful lines .

Its one stand FFS ,lol

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