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[Music] The “cultural” boycott of Isreal



Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 11, 2003
59,071
The Fatherland
What are people’s thoughts on this? Nick Cave recently had most of his shows picketed due to adding two Tel Aviv dates. He was pretty scathing of folk like Brian Eno, Roger Waters who he said “bullied” artists. They’ve now hit back. And a festival here received just 500 euros in funding from the Israeli arts ministry which resulted in a huge back lash with 10 artists pulling out as a result. A good friend of mine had organised a talk and panel discussion at this same festival to discuss female representation in the music industry and had a load of grief and pressure from the BDS but ultimately stuck to their guns (although one person pulled out) and did the talk. To be fair none of the people I know felt bullied or intimidated though.
 

pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
Boycotts of any variety (as opposed to the concept of official sanctions) in the serious context of the Middle East is just more of the same old bullshit that leads to people not being able to sensibly talk about resolving their differences.
Unhelpful.
 

Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
49,900
Goldstone
Boycotts of any variety (as opposed to the concept of official sanctions) in the serious context of the Middle East is just more of the same old bullshit that leads to people not being able to sensibly talk about resolving their differences.
Unhelpful.
Boycotts helped end apartheid.
 

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 11, 2003
59,071
The Fatherland
Thats South Africa, i was clear about the context of the Middle East......incredibly complex.

On the face of it South Africa did seem easier, but what areas do you feel are more complex regarding the Middle East?
 


portlock seagull

Why? Why us?
Jul 28, 2003
16,965
No other race on earth has been persecuted throughout the ages for such irrational reasons than the Jewish faith. Who can blame them now they’ve got their own turf if they don’t exactly play by the rulebook. The Middle East is where most of the worlds main religions collide, it’ll never be harmonious. Even a single faith can find plenty to fallout about.
 

Jesus Gul

Well-known member
Feb 23, 2004
5,451
I’d like to travel around Israel. Closest I got was Aqaba across the Red Sea from Eilat. Strange seeing Hebrew signs in the Jordanian tourist areas such as Petra but Jordan/Israel are relatively friendly.
 

pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
On the face of it South Africa did seem easier, but what areas do you feel are more complex regarding the Middle East?
Surely you only need to glance at a history book when comparing SA and the Middle East to realise the Middle East is far more complex than SA ever was
 


portlock seagull

Why? Why us?
Jul 28, 2003
16,965
Surely you only need to glance at a history book when comparing SA and the Middle East to realise the Middle East is far more complex than SA ever was

Ain’t that understatement of the day!
 

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 11, 2003
59,071
The Fatherland
Surely you only need to glance at a history book when comparing SA and the Middle East to realise the Middle East is far more complex than SA ever was

For sure, but we all have our own interpretations, versions and spin on history as we do with boycotts. I know what I think but I’m interested in other views....hence I’m asking what you think. Why don’t you think a boycott will succeed? Why do the complexities negate any boycott?
 

soistes

Well-known member
Sep 12, 2012
2,642
Brighton
While I think that many aspects of Israel's treatment of the Palestinians are horrendous, I don't support the cultural boycott of Israel (or indeed the parallel academic boycott which exists in the universities).

The main reason for this is that, for all its faults, Israel is a real democracy, and there is a large part of Israeli society which is also supportive of a different approach to the Palestine question. Unlike in South Africa (which was not a proper democracy, and where the ANC and other black activists supported and wanted the international boycotts, if I remember correctly) the Israeli opposition and pro-Palestine groups (including many Israeli arabs) do not, for the most part, support these boycotts, because they believe that they are counterproductive, strengthen the hard line Israeli right wing, and actually reduce the pro-Palestinian groups' ability to fight their corner within Israel and win over Israeli public opinion through democratic means. So unlike in South Africa, I think it's better for international artists, academics and others to engage (critically) with Israel, rather than go for an all-out boycott, which just further polarises things.
 


pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
For sure, but we all have our own interpretations, versions and spin on history as we do with boycotts. I know what I think but I’m interested in other views....hence I’m asking what you think. Why don’t you think a boycott will succeed? Why do the complexities negate any boycott?

Because the complexities of the whole region in general are ingrained over thousands of years of conflict of city states, then regions, then Empires, then religion, then inter religion conflict.
The area is divided yet linked through millennia of mutual history.
A boycott of purely Israel is too simplistic to solve this age old problem when the difficulties extend out to a far wider area.
If a boycott of Israel is the best solution people can come up with in regard to the Middle East then the region is screwed forever.......i dont pretend to have the answer either.
 

Guinness Boy

Tofu eating wokerati
Helpful Moderator
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 23, 2003
33,686
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
I'm trying to think of a similar situation where near neighbours of a dominant country were suppressed, rose up, became terrorists, were involved in a famous massacre, became even more violent terrorists, were interred, started secret talks and were eventually able to declare peace and have a power sharing agreement, all without a boycott, but it's gone. If only there was such an example......
 

timbha

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
9,807
Sussex
I'm trying to think of a similar situation where near neighbours of a dominant country were suppressed, rose up, became terrorists, were involved in a famous massacre, became even more violent terrorists, were interred, started secret talks and were eventually able to declare peace and have a power sharing agreement, all without a boycott, but it's gone. If only there was such an example......

Sussex/Surrey?
 


Thunder Bolt

Ordinary Supporter
While I think that many aspects of Israel's treatment of the Palestinians are horrendous, I don't support the cultural boycott of Israel (or indeed the parallel academic boycott which exists in the universities).

The main reason for this is that, for all its faults, Israel is a real democracy, and there is a large part of Israeli society which is also supportive of a different approach to the Palestine question. Unlike in South Africa (which was not a proper democracy, and where the ANC and other black activists supported and wanted the international boycotts, if I remember correctly) the Israeli opposition and pro-Palestine groups (including many Israeli arabs) do not, for the most part, support these boycotts, because they believe that they are counterproductive, strengthen the hard line Israeli right wing, and actually reduce the pro-Palestinian groups' ability to fight their corner within Israel and win over Israeli public opinion through democratic means. So unlike in South Africa, I think it's better for international artists, academics and others to engage (critically) with Israel, rather than go for an all-out boycott, which just further polarises things.

Indeed and you've only got to look at Beram and Tomer to see that Israeli Jews and Israeli Arabs do, for the most part, get on well together.
 

vegster

Sanity Clause
May 5, 2008
27,853
On the face of it South Africa did seem easier, but what areas do you feel are more complex regarding the Middle East?

The Middle East has a mix of Hebrews ,Muslims and Christians all fighting for the same patch of land and the right to exist to ( It sometimes seems ) the exclusion of the others. South Africa was a nation united against minority white rule so a tad simpler. South Africa was incredibly lucky that Mandella managed to keep the more revenge minded of the ANC mostly in check so they enjoyed a transition without a bloodbath.
 

vegster

Sanity Clause
May 5, 2008
27,853
Probably easier to sort out Middle Earth than the Middle East.
 

Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
49,900
Goldstone
Thats South Africa, i was clear about the context of the Middle East......incredibly complex.
But the thread isn't about sorting out every problem in the Middle East, it was just about Israel. People boycott Israel due to the occupied territories and their treatment of Palestinians.
 


Dick Swiveller

Well-known member
Sep 9, 2011
9,137
I guess talking about isreal, isfake news.

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk
 

pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
But the thread isn't about sorting out every problem in the Middle East, it was just about Israel. People boycott Israel due to the occupied territories and their treatment of Palestinians.

OK, you stick to Israel then
Doesnt bother me
 

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