[Albion] Transport to/from The Amex

Tim Over Whelmed · Nov 8, 2017

I guess comments like extending the station and undercover walkways could be part of the plan if we knew we had a second season in the EPL?

Lets hope the plan isn't to restrict games to 85 minutes so we can all leave at the same time!

Withdean · Nov 8, 2017

Worst time was when an accident on the road to the racecourse. Messed with the buses big time while they figured out plan B via Lewis Road.

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Gazwag · Nov 8, 2017

Tim Over Whelmed said:
I guess comments like extending the station and undercover walkways could be part of the plan if we knew we had a second season in the EPL?

Lets hope the plan isn't to restrict games to 85 minutes so we can all leave at the same time!

The station can never be extended as it is already is as big as the longest trains which can stop there

halbpro · Nov 8, 2017

rabbitmaddie said:
Leaving Car Park 1 at The University. All traffic becomes single lane at the exit of the car park, most then turning onto the eastern Ring Road towards the A27. Filter the traffic before it leaves the Car Park, so that there is an option to turn right out of the Car Park, along the Southern Ring Road, to come out onto the A270. Needs a placard with arrows to indicate the two exit lanes.

Leaving the Eastern Ring Road, approaching the first roundabout. Right lane is straight on towards the Amex, Left lane should be to Lewes only, but regularly used by vehicles then going straight over. Causes a logjam of two lanes trying to enter one lane, while there is also traffic coming up from A27 turning right at roundabout towards the Amex. Needs someone to direct left lane traffic of Eastern Ring Road to Lewes only. Also someone to temporarily hold up the traffic from A27, to allow traffic from Eastern Ring Road to cross.

Total requirement, three of the existing car park stewards, who generally stand around.

Yup, all of this needs to be done. Would solve a lot of the University carpark issues, although I wonder if they don't want to use the A270 exit due to clashes with the Bridge Carpark traffic?

Tim Over Whelmed · Nov 8, 2017

Gazwag said:
The station can never be extended as it is already is as big as the longest trains which can stop there

Isn't that odd, surely if I make the station bigger I can accommodate bigger trains, or am I missing the blindingly obvious?

Gazwag · Nov 8, 2017

Tim Over Whelmed said:
Isn't that odd, surely if I make the station bigger I can accommodate bigger trains, or am I missing the blindingly obvious?

How are these bigger trains going to unload passengers, ok Brighton, Polegate, Eastbourne and Hastings station could accommodate a 12 carriage train but off the top of my head that's about it. Also a 12 car could not stop at Lewes because of the points/signals.

BensGrandad · Nov 8, 2017

Tim Over Whelmed said:
Isn't that odd, surely if I make the station bigger I can accommodate bigger trains, or am I missing the blindingly obvious?

Not knowing the ins and out but a layman would think it is only the platforms that have to be extended to allow trains with more carriages to stop. Dont they stop longer trains at Lewes and tell passengers they have to be in the front 6 or whatever coaches as they do at various stations on the route from Brighton to Worthing. I am sure that I have caught a train from Falmer to Lewes when that message has been given out.

Gazwag · Nov 8, 2017

BensGrandad said:
Not knowing the ins and out but a layman would think it is only the platforms that have to be extended to allow trains with more carriages to stop. Dont they stop longer trains at Lewes and tell passengers they have to be in the front 6 or whatever coaches as they do at various stations on the route from Brighton to Worthing. I am sure that I have caught a train from Falmer to Lewes when that message has been given out.

So how long do you think it would take somebody to walk from carriage 12 to carriage 6 while the train sits in the platfrom holding up every train on the track behind it - a 12 carriage train is a quarter of a mile long btw. Besides as I said before I'm pretty sure a 12 car cannot stop at Lewes due to the points and/or signals. (On the Brighton line not the London line of course)

Tim Over Whelmed · Nov 8, 2017

BensGrandad said:
Not knowing the ins and out but a layman would think it is only the platforms that have to be extended to allow trains with more carriages to stop. Dont they stop longer trains at Lewes and tell passengers they have to be in the front 6 or whatever coaches as they do at various stations on the route from Brighton to Worthing.

Same with Amberley and was the same at Littlehaven, until they extended the platform ... me thinks they don't wish to solve this problem?

Why they can't chuck a couple of extra trains Famler to Brighton ten minutes after each other on match days is beyond me, you could have the 85 minute people back in Brighton before the final whistle and the 90 minute guys on a train just before the final whistle!

Gazwag · Nov 8, 2017

Tim Over Whelmed said:
Why they can't chuck a couple of extra trains Famler to Brighton ten minutes after each other on match days is beyond me, you could have the 85 minute people back in Brighton before the final whistle and the 90 minute guys on a train just before the final whistle!

Availability of rolling stock and drivers is the hindrance as well as not having too many trains between signals I guess. The trains are already about 10-15 minutes apart already (when they run on time)

BensGrandad · Nov 8, 2017

Gazwag said:
So how long do you think it would take somebody to walk from carriage 12 to carriage 6 while the train sits in the platfrom holding up every train on the track behind it - a 12 carriage train is a quarter of a mile long btw. Besides as I said before I'm pretty sure a 12 car cannot stop at Lewes due to the points and/or signals. (On the Brighton line not the London line of course)

Thr message is relayed from the moment you board the train and it leaves Falmer to Lewes or Brighton to Worthing so it is up to the passengers to make their way to the correct part of the train so there would be no delay. If they are in the wrong carriage tough they are given plenty of warning with no excuse for missing the stop.

Gazwag · Nov 8, 2017

BensGrandad said:
Thr message is relayed from the moment you board the train and it leaves Falmer to Lewes or Brighton to Worthing so it is up to the passengers to make their way to the correct part of the train so there would be no delay. If they are in the wrong carriage tough they are given plen ty of warning.

Then you will not solve the problem as people wanting to get off at Lewes cannot join the back of the train so will not be able to join the train if its full in the first six coaches. How are people going to walk up the carriages of a full train during the journey to Lewes. Have you ever caught the train on a match day??

BensGrandad · Nov 8, 2017

Yes and walked to the correct part of the train, with difficulty but have managed it and I am not the most mobile. 1st priority is get on the train then make sure I am in the correct part to be able to get off at Lewes if not move so that I am.

Tom Hark Preston Park · Nov 8, 2017

Herd all the early leavers into a big holding pen and keep them there until all the proper fans have left the building :moo:

Uter · Nov 8, 2017

Gazwag said:
Availability of rolling stock and drivers is the hindrance as well as not having too many trains between signals I guess. The trains are already about 10-15 minutes apart already (when they run on time)

I think the signalling between Lewes and Brighton was upgraded a couple of years ago to allow more frequent trains. From memory I think it should be able to handle 10-12 trains per hour now. Main issue is lack of rolling stock.

I read a day or two ago that Peter Kyle was questioning why the 3-car class 313 trains used on the Coastway routes (which date from the mid 70s) couldn't be replaced with the new 5-car class 707 trains that South West Trains have ordered, but decided to completely replace in a couple of years. At the moment they don't have a new home to go to.

Southern plan to introduce an additional all day Lewes/Brighton shuttle from next year (so there will typically be 6 timetabled trains per hour between Brighton and Lewes) and also split the Ashford service at either Hastings or Eastbourne to allow longer trains to run on the busier section (there are no spare diesel units to lengthen the present service). This means they may require additional electric units, so replacing their 19 313s with the 30 newish 707s might be a reasonable idea.

This would be a boon for evening games in particular as Southern often don't have the rolling stock to lengthen the 313s prior to evening games, so having a standard, more frequent 5 car service would have less operational headaches. On the West Coastway it would give a big capacity boost prior to matches too and there would be less delays caused by too many people trying to cram onto a 3 car train. Another drawback with the 313s is they don't have selective door opening, so when coupled together and run as a 6 car train they cannot call at stations with short platforms, e.g. Moulsecoomb.

However, in common with the 313s, the 707s don't have toilets and Peter Kyle seems unaware of this...

BensGrandad · Nov 8, 2017

Uter said:
I think the signalling between Lewes and Brighton was upgraded a couple of years ago to allow more frequent trains. From memory I think it should be able to handle 10-12 trains per hour now. Main issue is lack of rolling stock.

I read a day or two ago that Peter Kyle was questioning why the 3-car class 313 trains used on the Coastway routes (which date from the mid 70s) couldn't be replaced with the new 5-car class 707 trains that South West Trains have ordered, but decided to completely replace in a couple of years. At the moment they don't have a new home to go to.

Southern plan to introduce an additional all day Lewes/Brighton shuttle from next year (so there will typically be 6 timetabled trains per hour between Brighton and Lewes) and also split the Ashford service at either Hastings or Eastbourne to allow longer trains to run on the busier section (there are no spare diesel units to lengthen the present service). This means they may require additional electric units, so replacing their 19 313s with the 30 newish 707s might be a reasonable idea.

This would be a boon for evening games in particular as Southern often don't have the rolling stock to lengthen the 313s prior to evening games, so having a standard, more frequent 5 car service would have less operational headaches. On the West Coastway it would give a big capacity boost prior to matches too and there would be less delays caused by too many people trying to cram onto a 3 car train. Another drawback with the 313s is they don't have selective door opening, so when coupled together and run as a 6 car train they cannot call at stations with short platforms, e.g. Moulsecoomb.

However, in common with the 313s, the 707s don't have toilets and Peter Kyle seems unaware of this...

Is not having a toilet a problem on a short journey like Brighton to Lewes even with 3 stops en route or even less so on a train only stopping at Falmer.

Uter · Nov 8, 2017

BensGrandad said:
Is not having a toilet a problem on a short journey like Brighton to Lewes even with 3 stops en route or even less so on a train only stopping at Falmer.

I don't think it's an issue for travel to the Amex which generally involves short trips on trains so packed that even if a toilet is available it's difficult to get to. Problem is Southern use the 313's for longer journeys e.g. Portsmouth Harbour. When the 313s are finally replaced I think there will be an expectation amongst some passengers that they will have them, especially if they read Peter Kyle's twitter.

This is his tweet (regarding replacing the 313s with 707s): "A quick and easy way to get new trains to replace the Coastaway ones built in 1976 that have no toilets and are a misery to passengers:"

That to me suggests he is unaware that the 707s don't have toilets either. Of course it might be possible to retrofit them, but I suspect that is an expense Southern would be unwilling to incur. The current trains are leased until the end of the franchise (2022ish I think), so they would probably have to incur a penalty to end that early. So for that reason it's unlikely we'll see the 313s replaced early in any case IMO. On the other hand, if no takers appear for the 707s it will be very embarrassing for the Govt. to have 30 virtually new trains doing nothing so they might find some money to make sure that doesn't happen.

BensGrandad · Nov 8, 2017

Sorry my mistake as I thought that you were talking of Brighton to Lewes trains not those to Portsmouth etc. I know how the people would feel as I had the problem on a train from Goring to Brighton with no toilet going to one evening game and had to get off at Hove to find a toilet.

Mellor 3 Ward 4 · Nov 8, 2017

Many thanks to all of you who have posted so far on this thread.

Over the weekend I'll be collating the ideas and putting them in an email to PB.

Some ideas mentioned on here, such as building tunnels, bigger platforms and new P&R sites won't happen, purely on a cost basis. Remember the club heavily subsidises the transport.

The idea here is to give the club small ideas and thoughts that together might make a difference (busses coming up the slip road on the A27 on the 'inside', multiple loading of P&R busses after games and proactive stewarding at both Bridge & uni car parks seem a common theme.)

As an aside PB did say a a recent NWSS meeting that the Sainsburys P&R, whilst excellent! was a non starter in Saturdays.

Any more ideas welcome.

Uter · Nov 8, 2017

BensGrandad said:
Sorry my mistake as I thought that you were talking of Brigfhton to Lewes trains not those to Portsmouth etc. I know how the people would feel as I had the problem on a train from Goring to Brighton with no toilet

No problem. I think replacing the 313s with 707s would be great with or without toilets as it would make getting to and from the Amex much easier for everyone. But for everyday use toilets would definitely be preferable.

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