[Albion] LoyaltyPointGate - discussion with the club

dazzer6666 · Sep 23, 2017

fcportaloo said:
Abandon the loyalty scheme. Having the same fans turn up, to every away game could result in a poorer atmosphere so a bit more fan diversity would be nice, and spread away games between a broader fan base.The Bournemouth debacle has conflated loyalty with cost. How can you be 'loyal' but not turn up? PB axe the loyalty scheme, it's unfit for purpose

What do you suggest instead ?

bhanutz · Sep 23, 2017

fcportaloo said:
Abandon the loyalty scheme. Having the same fans turn up, to every away game could result in a poorer atmosphere so a bit more fan diversity would be nice, and spread away games between a broader fan base.The Bournemouth debacle has conflated loyalty with cost. How can you be 'loyal' but not turn up? PB axe the loyalty scheme, it's unfit for purpose

It didn't last season, or the one before..or even the one before that!

The Wookiee · Sep 23, 2017

As a punishment for those fans that abused the system at Bournemouth, how about taking away their eligibility to purchase an away ticket for Man Utd away. Won’t be smug then will they !

drew · Sep 23, 2017

Surrey_Albion said:
Limit purchases per person and/or season ticket holders first, it's not as if the current idea is working is it

Actually the current scheme is working reasonably well. It just went tits up for the Bournemouth game.

As much as it might grate, not sure the club can do anything retrospectively to penalize those fans that didn't turn up. What they can do is amend the terms going forward and warn those that didn't turn up (understand there were some that had tickets for both Barnet and Bournemouth and didn't turn up) that they are being 'watched'!

LamieRobertson · Sep 23, 2017

The Large One said:
Well... you can hear Paul Barber's thoughts on this week's Roar.

He's got the breakdown of exactly how many tickets were sold, how many turned up, who they were, and how many of them pulled that stunt for the Barnet game.

It's on podcast now.

I was a tad surprised over the Barnet number ...i guess because the focus has been on the Bournemouth game ...enjoyable program (again)

Hendrax · Sep 23, 2017

first come, first served. Sorted.

Big G · Sep 23, 2017

Bozza said:
I've had some correspondence with the club regarding last night's attendance at Bournemouth which, in case there is anyone unaware, saw 652 Albion fans attend when an allocation of 1,325 tickets had fully sold out.

It's covered in various threads:

- Looking forward to seeing over 1,000 fans at Bournemouth in the Carabao Cup!
- Bournemouth away tomorrow
- Bournemouth Cup game - did you go, or did you "go"?

I'm going to provide a précis of those conversations here, rather than continuing to fragment the discussion across several threads. Please note the actual words are my own:

The club cannot force people to attend matches when they have bought a ticket, particularly as there will always be legitimate reasons for “no shows”. However, the club are shocked at what appears to be widespread abuse of the loyalty point system last night at Bournemouth. This is particularly disappointing given the club worked hard to keep ticket prices down, yet these lower ticket prices seem to have instigated the abuse.

The club are currently reviewing data supplied to them by Bournemouth to gain a better understanding of the abuse and will be making some changes to the current system and to the governing terms and conditions. There is a wide variety of entry systems deployed by clubs which means it may not always be possible to do the same for all games, but requests will be made which is likely to be a costly exercise for the club. The club was aware there was a risk of abuse, but hoped that most fans would operate within the spirit of the scheme.

Possible options specific to last night include:

- doing nothing (not really considered an option)
- disqualifying the loyalty points from those supporters who didn’t attend last night’s game (however would disadvantage those fans who had a genuine reason for not attending), -
- disqualifying the loyalty points from all tickets sold for last might’s game (this would disadvantage those that did attend but would protecting the spirit of the system as far as possible)
- increasing the loyalty points awarded for those fans that did attend (partially neutralising the benefit gained by those that abused the system. However this would mean further impacting on those that were unable to buy tickets in the first place).

In the longer term, options include:

- changing to terms and conditions regarding the award and revocation of loyalty points
- considering mandatory ticket collections at venues close to the stadium we are visiting to minimise any further abuse of the system, and any associated mis-use of away match tickets.
- deploying club staff and scanners pre-away turnstiles to ensure that only those tickets used accrue the loyalty points promised or are being used by the supporters to whom they have been issued.

The club expect to make a statement on how they intend to move forward in the next day or so.

Quite how the club could decide to remove any loyalty points from those who bought a ticket and chose not to attend is beyond me. The tickets are purchased in accordance with the clubs procedures and other than transferring/selling the ticket on, that's where it's any of the clubs business what happens ends!!!
They cannot presume to...in some way force you to attend...or in some way punish you for not attending. It's simply not enforceable...I mean will they demand a doctors note if you're ill?? And what's the difference and why haven't they made the noises they're making now about the tickets sold for home games when they have the nerve to announce a 25,000+ attendance at home games on Tuesday nights when anyone can clearly see it's in no way anywhere near that. Will they punish home game no shows

jonny.rainbow · Sep 23, 2017

Scrap the current scheme and simplify it.

Home season ticket should guarantee tickets to home games only. No further perks are needed because it already offers us a discount on match day prices.

Simplify the away match priority purchase scheme. The history should be base on away attendance in the previous season only.

Day 1: on sale to fans who attended 10+ away games the previous season.
Day 2: on sale to fans who attended 5+ away games the previous season.
Day 3: on sale to fans who attended any away games the previous season.
Day 4: on general sale.

This system will encourage fans to attend away cup games against lower league opposition because it could boost them into a higher tier for the following season. It will also prevent the closed shop scenario we have at present because the top tier is far wider.

Neville's Breakfast · Sep 23, 2017

Big G said:
Quite how the club could decide to remove any loyalty points from those who bought a ticket and chose not to attend is beyond me. The tickets are purchased in accordance with the clubs procedures and other than transferring/selling the ticket on, that's where it's any of the clubs business what happens ends!!!
They cannot presume to...in some way force you to attend...or in some way punish you for not attending. It's simply not enforceable...I mean will they demand a doctors note if you're ill?? And what's the difference and why haven't they made the noises they're making now about the tickets sold for home games when they have the nerve to announce a 25,000+ attendance at home games on Tuesday nights when anyone can clearly see it's in no way anywhere near that. Will they punish home game no shows

It's quite simple. If people want to buy tickets for games and not attend that's absolutely fine. However they will not earn loyalty points for doing so because otherwise those people are buying future ticket priority at the expense of those that actually travel to support the team. It's that straightforward.

Arkwright · Sep 23, 2017

Without reading the whole thread I really don't think the problem is with the Loyal Point System but with the away allocation of tickets.
We give nearly 10% of the attendance to travelling fans and yet the big clubs allocate just 3,000 tickets. If Arsenal, Spurs, West Ham, ect gave us 10% I'm sure we would sell out and I'm sure that must of these games won't be a sellout in the home end.
Maybe we should give a smaller allocation to away fans and get more of our own fans through the turn styles for home games.

Big G · Sep 23, 2017

Neville's Breakfast said:
It's quite simple. If people want to buy tickets for games and not attend that's absolutely fine. However they will not earn loyalty points for doing so because otherwise those people are buying future ticket priority at the expense of those that actually travel to support the team. It's that straightforward.

It's not that straight forward at all.
Are the club going to decide on a list of circumstances in which it's ok for people not to attend?
What if someone cannot genuinely afford to go after buying a ticket (things happen)....is it right to penalise them?...or will the club be requiring a copy of a bank statement??
And like I said...if the club are going to make issues of people not going to away games after buying a ticket then the same principle must be introduced for home games!!!

fcportaloo · Sep 23, 2017

Hendrax said:
first come, first served. Sorted.

This

dazzer6666 · Sep 23, 2017

Hendrax said:
first come, first served. Sorted.

Bollocks. How would you do that with online sales ? A 'random queue lottery' isn't FCFS so don't suggest that.

Queuing at the Amex ? First to log on ? Neither of these are fairer than the current scheme.

The current scheme is probably about as good as it can get in principle, but the club ****ed up in this case by offering points for a a very cheap game, pure and simple. Leave it as it is, but don't offer points for tinpot cup games where tickets are only £10, and give few or no points for the glamour ties.

Neville's Breakfast · Sep 24, 2017

Big G said:
It's not that straight forward at all.
Are the club going to decide on a list of circumstances in which it's ok for people not to attend?
What if someone cannot genuinely afford to go after buying a ticket (things happen)....is it right to penalise them?...or will the club be requiring a copy of a bank statement??
And like I said...if the club are going to make issues of people not going to away games after buying a ticket then the same principle must be introduced for home games!!!

There is no need to check people's reason for non attendance. There is no loyalty in tapping your credit card details into your computer and it that's all you do then you don't deserve points. You also don't get points for intending to go. If you show your loyalty by actually going then you get points. I don't see why that is in anyway controversial or complicated. You have to show loyalty to get loyalty points.
With regard to penalizing or not the 600 the club could deduct their Bournemouth cup points. Alternatively they could add further points to everyone else in the system as this would have the same effect. Somehow the message has to be conveyed that this selfish 'me me me' attitude will not be rewarded. It will be difficult to accept for people with a certain moral compass but eventually the message will get through.
As to your point about home games, I agree.

darkwolf666 · Sep 24, 2017

dazzer6666 said:
Bollocks. How would you do that with online sales ? A 'random queue lottery' isn't FCFS so don't suggest that.

Queuing at the Amex ? First to log on ? Neither of these are fairer than the current scheme.

The current scheme is probably about as good as it can get in principle, but the club ****ed up in this case by offering points for a a very cheap game, pure and simple. Leave it as it is, but don't offer points for tinpot cup games where tickets are only £10, and give few or no points for the glamour ties.

The club might have ****ed up but that doesn't take away from the fact that 600 of the supposedly most loyal fans didn't turn up and played the system just so they could guarantee their ticket for Old Trafford, Wembley, Emirates, etc., where's the loyalty in that?

Husty · Sep 24, 2017

Arkwright said:
Without reading the whole thread I really don't think the problem is with the Loyal Point System but with the away allocation of tickets.
We give nearly 10% of the attendance to travelling fans and yet the big clubs allocate just 3,000 tickets. If Arsenal, Spurs, West Ham, ect gave us 10% I'm sure we would sell out and I'm sure that must of these games won't be a sellout in the home end.
Maybe we should give a smaller allocation to away fans and get more of our own fans through the turn styles for home games.

Err go look up the rules on this (and also our home capacity) :facepalm:

Blue Valkyrie · Sep 24, 2017

darkwolf666 said:
The club might have ****ed up but that doesn't take away from the fact that 600 of the supposedly most loyal fans didn't turn up and played the system just so they could guarantee their ticket for Old Trafford, Wembley, Emirates, etc., where's the loyalty in that?

Good point to highlight that the 600 harvesters came from the alledged 'most loyal' groups of albion fans.

If it was 600 'low loyalty' fans then perhaps the definition of loyalty would ring true.

The scheme is fundamentally flawed.

sully · Sep 24, 2017

Arkwright said:
Without reading the whole thread I really don't think the problem is with the Loyal Point System but with the away allocation of tickets.
We give nearly 10% of the attendance to travelling fans and yet the big clubs allocate just 3,000 tickets. If Arsenal, Spurs, West Ham, ect gave us 10% I'm sure we would sell out and I'm sure that must of these games won't be a sellout in the home end.
Maybe we should give a smaller allocation to away fans and get more of our own fans through the turn styles for home games.

You know that the 3,000 or 10% is a Premier League rule, don't you? There's nothing the club can do about that on their own.

It's not the problem here, either.

ropey9 · Sep 24, 2017

sully said:
You know that the 3,000 or 10% is a Premier League rule, don't you? There's nothing the club can do about that on their own.

It's not the problem here, either.

Isn't that the minimum, rather than a cap?

PILTDOWN MAN · Sep 24, 2017

Arkwright said:
Without reading the whole thread I really don't think the problem is with the Loyal Point System but with the away allocation of tickets.
We give nearly 10% of the attendance to travelling fans and yet the big clubs allocate just 3,000 tickets. If Arsenal, Spurs, West Ham, ect gave us 10% I'm sure we would sell out and I'm sure that must of these games won't be a sellout in the home end.
Maybe we should give a smaller allocation to away fans and get more of our own fans through the turn styles for home games.

Who's ect? :shrug:

Etc I get.

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