[Albion] LoyaltyPointGate - discussion with the club

kingcole · Sep 23, 2017

The club does not have to re-invent the wheel here.

There are numerous clubs who have been established in the PL for many many years who have many many more fans seeking to buy one of the 3000 tickets that are on sale for away games.

Why don't the club just have a look at what they do?

Bozza · Sep 23, 2017

ropey9 said:
It all seems rather simple to sort out, the current system with demand exceeding supply unfairly penalises the expat* fan base that have in the past attended away games more local too them.

*expat – living far enough away that having a season ticket is not realistic.

The number of expats without season tickets I should imagine will number in the few hundred at most.

The solution is thus, introduce an away point’s loyalty tier that has precedence over season ticket holders. Excluding local away games the support rarely exceeded 1000 so for most away games this season this would leave circa 2000 going through to season ticket holder where the tier can be graduated as current so that ST with the longer years of service are able to buy before newer ones. Obviously there will be a good proportion of ST with away LPs so they would not be excluded from the initial sale point, it would only be the ST (never been away) that now would like to go to Arsenal that would need to wait.

That is far from simple.

How does someone prove they are an "expat fan". We all have friends living distant from Sussex we could rope in to be "expat fans". The club would suddenly be inundated with "expat fans" keen to witness the Albion's Premier League adventure. You'd be triggering a massively manual, and hence expensive, administrative process on the club to record and monitor this stuff.

Beyond that, I wholeheartedly disagree that any expat fan should have priority access to tickets unless they fulfil the same criteria as anyone else.

PILTDOWN MAN · Sep 23, 2017

ropey9 said:
It all seems rather simple to sort out, the current system with demand exceeding supply unfairly penalises the expat* fan base that have in the past attended away games more local too them.

*expat – living far enough away that having a season ticket is not realistic.

The number of expats without season tickets I should imagine will number in the few hundred at most.

The solution is thus, introduce an away point’s loyalty tier that has precedence over season ticket holders. Excluding local away games the support rarely exceeded 1000 so for most away games this season this would leave circa 2000 going through to season ticket holder where the tier can be graduated as current so that ST with the longer years of service are able to buy before newer ones. Obviously there will be a good proportion of ST with away LPs so they would not be excluded from the initial sale point, it would only be the ST (never been away) that now would like to go to Arsenal that would need to wait.

In regards POTG, too bad really there needs to be a way of tracking this and for the past number of seasons all away tickets have always been on sale from the club. In this regard, of the 10 away's I went to last season, 4 were last minute POTG. Having said that having only had LPs for 6 aways last season I have been able to get tickets for all games this season, so it shows that you didn't need to be a super away fan to ensure access to tickets this season.

What do you consider too far to have a ST? Only ask as my brother has one and lives in north Wales.

ropey9 · Sep 23, 2017

PILTDOWN MAN said:
What do you consider too far to have a ST? Only ask as my brother has one and lives in north Wales.

Its obviously more complicated then just putting a distance on it. There are a number of factors, distance, finances, family situation, etc. The system would not be able to factor these things, so it would be a simple case of in the past you attended away games so its unfair that this still shouldn't be the case.

PILTDOWN MAN · Sep 23, 2017

ropey9 said:
Its obviously more complicated then just putting a distance on it. There are a number of factors, distance, finances, family situation, etc. The system would not be able to factor these things, so it would be a simple case of in the past you attended away games so its unfair that this still shouldn't be the case.

Currently there's still a chance for anyone with history to get tickets to some away games, just they will not be the away games every one wants to go to. Those that do go to away games as a matter of course shouldn't be denied their tickets due to someone else who fancies a glamour game.

That is the only way of being fair. Abuse of the system as has happened is wrong but the opportunity of such abuse is very limited now we're out of this cup. All they have to do is zero points for away games in any cup and no loyalty points required to buy a ticket. Lets face it the team management don't appear bothered about playing in them why should the supporters.

I would also load points a lot more on the lessor games in the league.

drew · Sep 23, 2017

ropey9 said:
It all seems rather simple to sort out, the current system with demand exceeding supply unfairly penalises the expat* fan base that have in the past attended away games more local too them.

*expat – living far enough away that having a season ticket is not realistic.

The number of expats without season tickets I should imagine will number in the few hundred at most.

The solution is thus, introduce an away point’s loyalty tier that has precedence over season ticket holders. Excluding local away games the support rarely exceeded 1000 so for most away games this season this would leave circa 2000 going through to season ticket holder where the tier can be graduated as current so that ST with the longer years of service are able to buy before newer ones. Obviously there will be a good proportion of ST with away LPs so they would not be excluded from the initial sale point, it would only be the ST (never been away) that now would like to go to Arsenal that would need to wait.

In regards POTG, too bad really there needs to be a way of tracking this and for the past number of seasons all away tickets have always been on sale from the club. In this regard, of the 10 away's I went to last season, 4 were last minute POTG. Having said that having only had LPs for 6 aways last season I have been able to get tickets for all games this season, so it shows that you didn't need to be a super away fan to ensure access to tickets this season.

Have to agee with Bozza that expats don't merit any priority over those that go now. People make decisions in life which have consequences, some good and worthwhile so not. You weigh them up and make your choice. If you have left the area that's your choice and if that means no longer going to the Albion then that's the cost to you. If the Albion is reasonably important then you would still keep your season, there are many that travel a long way for games. However it is understandable if it is not a major priority but don't then expect to pick and chose which glamour games you get to see.

There is nothing inherently wrong with the LP system. The issue was that LP were allocated to the Bournemouth cup game. The club will hopefully learn from that and not make the same mistake again.

Surrey_Albion · Sep 23, 2017

Queue up and buy at the ticket office,1st come first served like the old days

Whitechapel · Sep 23, 2017

Surrey_Albion said:
Queue up and buy at the ticket office,1st come first served like the old days

So what stops ticket touts getting down to the Amex 12 hours before they go on sale and scooping up tickets for our trips to Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge etc?

Guinness Boy · Sep 23, 2017

Whitechapel said:
So what stops ticket touts getting down to the Amex 12 hours before they go on sale and scooping up tickets for our trips to Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge etc?

Maybe the fact they're not on sale for another 12 hours? :shrug:

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The Large One · Sep 23, 2017

Well... you can hear Paul Barber's thoughts on this week's Roar.

He's got the breakdown of exactly how many tickets were sold, how many turned up, who they were, and how many of them pulled that stunt for the Barnet game.

It's on podcast now.

spence · Sep 23, 2017

the large one said:
well... You can hear paul barber's thoughts on this week's roar.

He's got the breakdown of exactly how many tickets were sold, how many turned up, who they were, and how many of them pulled that stunt for the barnet game.

It's on podcast now.

link please

Giraffe · Sep 23, 2017

Cant remember who but possibly [MENTION=10251]afcb[/MENTION] made the point about a data protection breach in terms of Bournemouth giving us the data? Don't know if this is a real issue. Anyone know?

Sergei's Celebration · Sep 23, 2017

Giraffe said:
Cant remember who but possibly [MENTION=10251]afcb[/MENTION] made the point about a data protection breach in terms of Bournemouth giving us the data? Don't know if this is a real issue. Anyone know?

Not an issue. Brighton would have the details of who they gave the tickets to, Bournemouth would know what tickets came through the gate and pass that back to Brighton who would reconcile.

Both clubs would reasonably be expected to hold personal data on the ticket holders and handle that as per the data protection act (as data owners/data handlers).

No issues with data protection here.

The Large One · Sep 23, 2017

spence said:
link please

www.albionroar.co.uk

Bozza · Sep 23, 2017

Sergei's Celebration said:
Not an issue. Brighton would have the details of who they gave the tickets to, Bournemouth would know what tickets came through the gate and pass that back to Brighton who would reconcile.

Both clubs would reasonably be expected to hold personal data on the ticket holders and handle that as per the data protection act (as data owners/data handlers).

No issues with data protection here.

I’m not so sure about that having previously thought it earlier this week.

By passing turnstile data over to the Albion another club ARE releasing information that would enable the club to identify individual supporters. By my understanding that is PII.

Bozza · Sep 23, 2017

Sergei's Celebration said:
Not an issue. Brighton would have the details of who they gave the tickets to, Bournemouth would know what tickets came through the gate and pass that back to Brighton who would reconcile.

Both clubs would reasonably be expected to hold personal data on the ticket holders and handle that as per the data protection act (as data owners/data handlers).

No issues with data protection here.

Wikipedia’s definition of PII is below. Turnstile data would be IMO.

Although, curiously, the PII relates to fans who did attend the game. The club can then use this to identify those who didn’t. Bournemouth did not provide any data relating to these people.

“Personally identifiable information (PII), or sensitive personal information (SPI), as used in information security and privacy laws, is information that can be used on its own or with other information to identify, contact, or locate a single person, or to identify an individual in context.”

Simontheseagull · Sep 23, 2017

adub68 said:
Albion away attendances in recent years for the EFL cup (ex Spurs). All of the games in the southern half of the country given the split in early rounds:

Oxford 677
Southend 692
Walsall 411
Swindon 628
Burton 683
Avg 618
Bmuff 652

I have a lot of sympathy for those who can't get tickets for away games at the moment and sure there will have been a number of people who got blocked by others with more loyalty points who purchased for points only or for option value depending on the Friday game but based on previous attendances personally I remain unconvinced that there was demand for another 673 tickets from those who were only interested in attending rather from some also who were interested in getting some points themselves and who may or may not have attended but for whatever reason didnt get manage to get a ticket.

The club should take responsibility here for denying certain people the chance to get tickets. Otherwise they open a can of worms on non attendance by certain season ticket holders at home games (4 next to us have less than 50% occupancy rate in last 6 years), Barnet, Huddersfield etc. There should have been no loyalty points for this game or a first come first served general sale for this game justified by the fact that hardly anyone tends to go to these games and therefore it should not have been the "must" attend game that 70 pages of debate seems to suggest.

Personally I was more annoyed with the performance and the approach taken when we went 1 down than the empty seats (and would gladly give up my points for this game given the anger of some)

I agree with you 100%.

As many have said, if the club does not offer any loyalty points for meaningless cup games played between reserve sides:
1) die hards who go to all or many Albion away matches will be able to get tickets. They most probably have so many loyalty points they don't need any extra points to buy tickets for high profile away matches.
2) Exiles who would normally attend matches like these ones and find it difficult to get tickets for any away matches due to having too few loyaly points under the current loyalty scheme, would be able to buy tickets for these matches.
3) Anyone else who complains they would have gone to these meaningless reserve team matches if they had been given the opportunity, would have been able to buy tickets too.

Sergei's Celebration · Sep 23, 2017

Bozza said:
I’m not so sure about that having previously thought it earlier this week.

By passing turnstile data over to the Albion another club ARE releasing information that would enable the club to identify individual supporters. By my understanding that is PII.

I would argue that the turnstile data in itself is not pii as it would only relate to the ticket number (and no individual can be identified by just the number, much like a number plate on its own is not pii, add the driver details then it is). The ticket number + the ticket holder would be pii.

However I think the question is if the passing of any form of ticket data (ticket number alone or with pii) between clubs would be a data protection issue. As it is reasonable to argue that both clubs have a need to hold and access the data, and there is a legal requirement to do so, the transfer of data between the two clubs (data owner to data handler for example) would be justified.

More than happy to be proved wrong and will think it thro more.

Surrey_Albion · Sep 23, 2017

Whitechapel said:
So what stops ticket touts getting down to the Amex 12 hours before they go on sale and scooping up tickets for our trips to Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge etc?

Limit purchases per person and/or season ticket holders first, it's not as if the current idea is working is it

fcportaloo · Sep 23, 2017

Abandon the loyalty scheme. Having the same fans turn up, to every away game could result in a poorer atmosphere so a bit more fan diversity would be nice, and spread away games between a broader fan base.The Bournemouth debacle has conflated loyalty with cost. How can you be 'loyal' but not turn up? PB axe the loyalty scheme, it's unfit for purpose

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