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- #21
It is, but he's still the best rider there is.
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Chris Froome
- Thread starter Triggaaar
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- #22
Which is a joke. Froome is one of the greatest road cyclists of all time, not just among the Brits.
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- #23
And all another GC rider has to do is sit on Chris's wheel, being even more protected from the wind, then race over the last mile etc.
But they aren't dictating the pace.
Sure it's easier sitting on a wheel, and you can go at a speed faster than if you were on the front.
But as we see all so often, the moment they do put their noses in front not only are they easily caught, the cumulative damage usually means they end up spat out the back.
When CF has a bad day, which reassuring happens quite a bit, he only loses seconds because of the levels he starts at.
Tooting Gull
Well-known member
- Jul 5, 2003
- 11,033
There are similarities to Formula One - the best driver gets the best car, like the best rider gets the best team and support. But presumably you have to earn the right to hold that position in the first place.
arewethereyet?
Well-known member
Froome gets my vote for SPOTY this year by a country mile.
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- #27
Yes if they try and force the pace, but I'm talking about towards the finish.
I do agree with you about the pace - Sky can push more when they feel good, and take it easier when not, but it's often just a couple of domestiques doing the work at the front for Sky, it shouldn't be that hard for other teams to keep up even when they're not feeling great.
Sky clearly have the best team - not just the riders, but also the tacticians, and of course it's a huge help. But as I said during the TdF, Chris would still probably have won if he was in another team.
vegster
Sanity Clause
- May 5, 2008
- 27,886
Wouldn't want to be stuck in a lift with him though.
There's a huge difference between being able to live with the pace and being able to accelerate from others doing the same.
When I was racing 4th Cat (basically turn up and have a go level) we'd often have an average speed of 25mph - hard, but a comfortable pace to sit on a wheel at. To accelerate from that to "race" others over a short distance takes serious effort (think 30% more effort over 2 minutes) and good positioning.
Pros can all push a higher pace for further, but everyone has limits. Froome seems to have a higher limit than most, even if just for the 30 seconds needed to get the right gap once. When you lose a wheel and are already on the rivet you're screwed.
Sky do have an exceptional team, and have riders who will lead teams riding as domestiques, but that doesn't detract from what Froome has done. I want him though ride the Giro next year. Holding all 3 Grand Tours simultaneously is unprecedented in the modern era.
Sent from my FP2 using Tapatalk
It's a massive achievement.
Of course he is in a great team, but he delivers. He is unafraid to take on his competitors in the mountains when it matters. It doesn't matter how good your team is, you still have to be the top dog in the team, prepared to be at the front every day for 3 weeks of racing.
The other teams have the money to take on Sky - especially BMC - but they've failed. They have failed because SKY are well drilled and in the tours they want to win, they have the best GC rider - Chris Froome.
The xenophobia that accompanies him astounds me. He's British. His parents settled in Kenya and he was schooled in South Africa, but his originating roots are British. He can't help it if in the name of 'empire' many Brits relocated to former colonial countries. Get over it.
He also suffers from an image of being cold, and yet he is so well-liked in the peloton. In actual fact, he just suffers from lack of coverage via the narrow-focused sports media in this country.
As for riding clean. He's clean. He has done more than he possibly can to prove his performance data, having even held his data up to independent scrutiny. I'll bet there are some riders trying to cheat, still, but they will be caught out. There will be as many Premier League footballers doping, but I doubt we'll ever hear about them as the anti-doping in football is under-developed.
This achievement is immense, and as Brits - if patriotism is your sort of thing - we should be proud of him.
Of course he is in a great team, but he delivers. He is unafraid to take on his competitors in the mountains when it matters. It doesn't matter how good your team is, you still have to be the top dog in the team, prepared to be at the front every day for 3 weeks of racing.
The other teams have the money to take on Sky - especially BMC - but they've failed. They have failed because SKY are well drilled and in the tours they want to win, they have the best GC rider - Chris Froome.
The xenophobia that accompanies him astounds me. He's British. His parents settled in Kenya and he was schooled in South Africa, but his originating roots are British. He can't help it if in the name of 'empire' many Brits relocated to former colonial countries. Get over it.
He also suffers from an image of being cold, and yet he is so well-liked in the peloton. In actual fact, he just suffers from lack of coverage via the narrow-focused sports media in this country.
As for riding clean. He's clean. He has done more than he possibly can to prove his performance data, having even held his data up to independent scrutiny. I'll bet there are some riders trying to cheat, still, but they will be caught out. There will be as many Premier League footballers doping, but I doubt we'll ever hear about them as the anti-doping in football is under-developed.
This achievement is immense, and as Brits - if patriotism is your sort of thing - we should be proud of him.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
Have Sky won the Giro? No, they send strong teams with a strong leader by they haven't won it. Same with the Vuelta until now.
Froome does have incredible support, but he still has to perform, even with a wheel in front of you, you've got to have the legs.
Froome does have incredible support, but he still has to perform, even with a wheel in front of you, you've got to have the legs.
1066familyman
Radio User
- Jan 15, 2008
- 15,185
I get where your coming from, but cycling is a team sport for the individual, if you like. It's how it works and by and large it works well. Team Sky with their big budget, roster of riders, and riding style in Grand Tours does often make for a dull spectacle. They're not the first team to do it though, as others here will quickly point out if I don't mention it.
If we're not going to get a balancing of team budgets, and we won't because cycling as a sport is based entirely on commercial sponsorship, then what we need is smaller team numbers in Grand Tours. Reducing from 9 riders down to 7, whilst not leveling the playing field, will take some of the big team advantage away and should make for more exciting racing.
As for Froome. I'm no Team Sky fan but I do like Froome and a number of their riders. Froome has evolved into a complete rider. He can be exciting to watch when the chips are down or even when on top. He has the heart of a lion and is not afraid to take risks to take time wherever he can find it. Comes across as a humble and all round nice bloke as well. His achievements are all hard earned and thoroughly deserved.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
Exactly. Nibali and Contador had their bad days in this tour, not because of their teams, because of their own bad days. Froome didn't. He has in previously Vueltas, but he nailed this one. He has grown tactically, his reading of a race is now exemplary, he rarely panics, he attacks when he feels good when he could easily just hold his position.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
This with a few bells on.
Think back to that attack on the decent last year in the TdF when he sat on the cross bar and pedalled for all he was worth. He's got real heart, and despite all the power meters, data etc. I think he still races with instinct, and attacking intent.
But it's a team sport. If you want to individuals pitted against individuals then maybe team sport is not for you?
Bob!
Coffee Buyer
- Jul 5, 2003
- 11,114
So, if it's a team sport then why does Froome get all the plaudits?
I'm far from an expert but because the team is build around him I guess.
Because it's a team sport for individuals. He's the team leader, and wins stage races by taking the least time overall. He's helped to do this by his domestiques.
There's also a team race at the Tour she France which Sky won this year. It's based on the cumulative time of the first 3 riders from each team on each stage.
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Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
It comes down to cyclists having a massive advantage following another cyclist, in some cases 30% less effort to maintain the same speed as the person in front of you. You could strip teams out of it, and still cyclists would form collaborations and adhoc working together, however ultimately someone does need to cross the line in the least amount of time.
Having said that, there are of course time trial stages in Grand Tours where it is a purely individual race because you race against the clock starting at separate intervals.
Grand Tours especially are also 20 or so mini races within a big race. Each stage is a cycling race in its own right, including time trials, so teams with no interest in the general classification and winning the overall race, will target winning stages. There separate winners for different aspects of the race, a points jersey for the sprinters, and a points jersey for the climbers. Points gained for winning stages, and getting to certain points in a race first, or getting to the top of a mountain first, even if its not the end of the stage.
There is a huge dynamic in these races, far more than just on the face of it Froome winning the Vuelta.
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This is how marathon running can be when there is a packed elite field and the only aim is to win. Tactics play a huge part and it will always be better to tuck in behind the leader and conserve energy.