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  1. #61
    A. Virgo, Football Genius
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    2 Not allowed!
    the defendant says he called out twice to warn her, yet couldn't slow down sufficiently? certainly doesn't sound like she walked off the kerb randomly giving him no time to react, so the roadworthiness of the bike (and attitude to risk) seems to damn him.
    Last edited by beorhthelm; 18-08-2017 at 09:33.
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    • #62
      Don't wait for me! Albumen's Avatar
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      1 Not allowed!
      Quote Originally Posted by Tom Hark, Preston Park View Post
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      That's what I always thought from my dimly-remembered boyhood cycling days. Presumably having back brakes only would slow you down more slowly?
      Dependant on how tight your breaks are. If tight and new you'd grind to a halt or most likely do a nifty skid to a halt, then wave to the ladies.
    • #63
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      3 Not allowed!
      @Stat Brother is spot on here, I can't believe anyone is arguing with him!?!?!?

      If I run someone over in my car and that car is proved not to be roadworthy then I will be put up in front of a judge and nobody would question it. It doesn't matter if the pedestrian wasn't paying attention or stepped out in the road without looking, it's up to the driver to watch out for hazards. If he can prove in court that he was paying attention and it couldn't have been avoided then fair enough, but anyone who rides a bike will know that front brakes make a huge difference to your stopping distance so that ship has failed I'm afraid.
    • #64
      NHS Slave Carrot Cruncher's Avatar
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      0 Not allowed!
      We desperately need to bring back those 'scare the living shit out of you' public information films. As we're a nation glued to our phones, we need one where someone is staring at their phone and steps into the road without looking and immediately gets ploughed into by a vehicle. I've seen too many near misses for people not looking where they're going.

      Let's be honest, how many of you over the age of 35 have got a frisbee from an electricity sub station or got a kite out of a pylon? It's because we were scared rigid by the good old public information film.
      'Cause I know that you know that we know they don't know what's going on.
    • #65
      Members Stat Brother's Avatar
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      0 Not allowed!
      Quote Originally Posted by Carrot Cruncher View Post
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      We desperately need to bring back those 'scare the living shit out of you' public information films. As we're a nation glued to our phones, we need one where someone is staring at their phone and steps into the road without looking and immediately gets ploughed into by a vehicle. I've seen too many near misses for people not looking where they're going.

      Let's be honest, how many of you over the age of 35 have got a frisbee from an electricity sub station or got a kite out of a pylon? It's because we were scared rigid by the good old public information film.



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    • #66

      0 Not allowed!
      Hopefully there is some cctv footage to help the court. Its a horrible story, but sadly inevitable. What I post next is pure speculation.

      Without proper brakes he was going to hit someone sooner or later and by being glued to her smart phone she was going to come a cropper to some degree sooner or later too.

      We are taught when at primary school never to step into a road unless we have checked.

      Maybe the time has come to follow Russia's lead and have all road users travel with dash cams. Maybe even take it further and have movement detectors on smartphones so that it asks a user to confirm they are neither walking nor driving while using. That way, if there is an accident, the phone history will show they took the conscious decision to say 'no'.
    • #67
      Members Bob'n'weave's Avatar
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      0 Not allowed!
      No doubt about the law on this in regard to using a 'vehicle' that is fit for use on public highways. Brakes and a bell are high on the list of requirements for cycles, so you can warn people in your way to move, if they don't, then thats what the anchors are for. Back brake first, then front so you don't go over the top is standard practice. He will be lucky to escape jail for this imo.

      (On this note, iv'e always thought it strange that many kids bikes only have a front brake. Asking for trouble?)
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    • #68
      Resident pedant Triggaaar's Avatar
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      2 Not allowed!
      Quote Originally Posted by Albumen View Post
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      Let him off with a fine for a shit bike (which we've all had in the past when we were young).
      Non of us had a bike that fast without brakes. And so what if we did? That's like a drunk driver killing someone and saying we've all driven over the limit before so let them off.

      If this was a car driver who was using a mobile phone at the time of the accident, NSC would have melted with outrage.

      If this guy had a legal bike, would she have lived? If not, then I would imagine he's not guilty, but if so (or maybe), then surely he's at least partly culpable?
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    • #69
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      1 Not allowed!
      Stating the obv here but there are not winners in the case.

      Illegal or not riding at a reported 18 mph on busy roads without a front brake is dumb. A rough guide for braking pressure on a 2 wheeler is 75% front to 25% rear if you want to make a quick stop. The front wheel/brake is more effective than the back due to the position of the rider and the momentum shift towards the front of the bike when braking. The additional control that a front brake provides is invaluable in these types of situation.

      Ultimately the pedestrian has caused this mess but the cyclist could have been in a better position to prevent it by having a front brake. Seems like a tough one for the jury.
    • #70
      Resident pedant Triggaaar's Avatar
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      1 Not allowed!
      Quote Originally Posted by drew View Post
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      What if the circumstances of the accident had been exactly the same but it had been the cyclist that came off, hit the concrete and suffered the catastrophic brain injury. Would she have been charged with manslaughter?
      That's a fair question, and she would be partly to blame, as she had stepped onto a road without looking sufficiently. The question is, is it reasonable to think their actions (the killer) would result in the death of another? I think that's certainly reasonable in the case of someone riding a fast bike at speed without a front brake. Less so in the case of a pedestrian, who isn't so likely to kill someone.

      Quote Originally Posted by Stat Brother View Post
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      Charlie Alliston had enough time to call out to her, perhaps he would have been better off using that time to perform an emergency stop.
      I think this is an important part of the case. If he had time to call to her (twice I think), he could have slowed down a lot more if his bike had been legal. And I imagine it's very unlikely she'd have died if he had slowed down a lot.

      That might not have been enough to stop this fatality
      It probably would have, IMO.

      Quote Originally Posted by drew View Post
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      He can't, he hates cyclists. Difficult to back down!
      Stat Bro hates cyclists? That's a new one on me.

      Quote Originally Posted by LU7 RED View Post
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      The media absolutely love it when a cyclist kills a pedestrian
      Yeah, did you get the party invite too?

      Quote Originally Posted by beorhthelm View Post
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      the defendant says he called out twice to warn her, yet couldn't slow down sufficiently? certainly doesn't sound like she walked off the kerb randomly giving him no time to react, so the roadworthiness of the bike (and attitude to risk) seems to damn him.
      Agreed.

      Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Fish View Post
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      @Stat Brother is spot on here, I can't believe anyone is arguing with him!?!?!?

      If I run someone over in my car and that car is proved not to be roadworthy then I will be put up in front of a judge and nobody would question it. It doesn't matter if the pedestrian wasn't paying attention or stepped out in the road without looking, it's up to the driver to watch out for hazards.
      Well I think it does make some difference whether she was looking or not, but I agree that if he was driving a car without adequate brakes, no one would even be having a debate about this, we'd all be saying he's guilty.
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