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Does the loyalty scheme now mean that the away fans club are a closed shop?



Goldstone1976

Goldstone1976

We Got Calde in!!
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patron
Apr 30, 2013
13,788
Herts
Giraffe said:
I seem to recall mention of capping it at 8 years. If it's not capped at some point it's even more of a closed shop (mathematically) isn't it?
Click to expand...

I haven't seen it specified by the club that it's capped at 8 years, but the fact that they've bothered to specify that it def goes out to 8 years (but no more), the fact that the last 2 years see only a 10 LP pa increase, and that 200 for the last year is a nice round number all lead me to think that their current thinking is that it will be capped at 8.
 




Whitechapel

Whitechapel

Famous Last Words
Jul 19, 2014
4,074
Not in Whitechapel
brightn'ove said:
Perhaps it will be, so long as we're in the Premier League. And rightly so, the people who have put the work in deserve the tickets. Were we to go down & come back up, others will have had a chance to break in to the 'club' as you call it.
Click to expand...

Bullshit.

I'm going to try and not go to "Super Fan"ish here, as I recognise my history supporting Brighton pales in comparison compared to some people on here,but I've had a season ticket every year since the 2000/01 season apart from the 2015/16 season where I had been out of work when it came to renewal time and come the start of the season I had a job, but it was a three month temporary contract on £6.50 an hour.

In short because of exterior reasons I had to cancel my Season Ticket. I was back to having one for the 16/17 season but alas missing one season means that the 14 previous consecutive seasons count for sweet F.A. Now, this isn't the fault of the club, but I still feel I have every reason to be royally f*cked off, especially when somebody who started watching Brighton when Oscar Garciawas manager dwarfs me when it comes to points, so I seriously think your point about people deserving the points they've worked for is inaccurate, because it's not that black and white.

It's all very well and good to say it's not a closed shop because Burnley, Swansea & Newcastle haven't sold out, but when I've been hooked on away games since I went to my first one, aged 6 in the 00/01 season (Orient away FWIW). When Iwas 7 or 8 years old my dream in life was to see Brighton play at stadiums such as Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge & Anfield. I now have no chance simply because the club deem me going through difficult times three years ago as a valid reason to wipe my slate clean and treat me as a new fan.

As I said, I went to my first game before I even had a STH, aged 6 and it's one of the things that got me so hooked on football and Brighton & Hove Albion. The current system means that someone will be unable to take their son of around a similar age to their first away game unless

A) We're relegated.
B) They're willing to travel at least 400 miles* to get there. Not ideal with a young child.
C) They ask a friend to buy a ticket for their child, something which the club are already trying to clamp down on.

All of this is before you consider the fact that wiping ST points after one season means it's now suicide to give up your ticket, ushering in the potential for a similar situation to what Man United & Liverpool (amongst others) where Season Tickets are never canceled, merely passed on between family members because not only will you get to skip the waiting list, but you get to keep all of the points you'd built up, rather than having to wait EIGHT seasons to catch up with those ahead of you. And don't forget in those eight season they'll be able to hoover up somewhere between 3-10 local games that you can't get tickets for. So another 30-100 points per season. It's a broken system.

The system we had in place needed fine tuning, so the club took a sledgehammer to it, and I'd feel exactly the same way if I had benefited from the change. In fact last year I said the system needed tweaking to better represent fans who travel to less glamours games, despite the fact that every game I attended had at least 1800 Brighton fans in attendance. It's not about feeling hard-done by; although I do, it's about finding a system that's fair for everyone and doesn't just allow the same group of 4000ish Brighton fans to have a complete monopoly over away games.

*Assuming all games South of West Brom sell out to very high point members. Which they will
 
Last edited:


Charlies Shinpad

Charlies Shinpad

New member
Jul 5, 2003
4,415
Oakford in Devon
The thing I notice is that you get points for every away game so it will end up that only the same 3,000ish fans will get all the dibs on every game and everyone else won't have a sniff of them as the points gap will get wider every season if we stay up
 




portlock seagull

portlock seagull

Why? Why us?
Jul 28, 2003
17,078
Whitechapel said:
Bullshit.

I'm going to try and not go to "Super Fan"ish here, as I recognise my history supporting Brighton pales in comparison compared to some people on here,but I've had a season ticket every year since the 2000/01 season apart from the 2015/16 season where I had been out of work when it came to renewal time and come the start of the season I had a job, but it was a three month temporary contract on £6.50 an hour.

In short because of exterior reasons I had to cancel my Season Ticket. I was back to having one for the 16/17 season but alas missing one season means that the 14 previous consecutive seasons count for sweet F.A. Now, this isn't the fault of the club, but I still feel I have every reason to be royally f*cked off, especially when somebody who started watching Brighton when Oscar Garciawas manager dwarfs me when it comes to points, so I seriously think your point about people deserving the points they've worked for is inaccurate, because it's not that black and white.

It's all very well and good to say it's not a closed shop because Burnley, Swansea & Newcastle haven't sold out, but when I've been hooked on away games since I went to my first one, aged 6 in the 00/01 season (Orient away FWIW). When Iwas 7 or 8 years old my dream in life was to see Brighton play at stadiums such as Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge & Anfield. I now have no chance simply because the club deem me going through difficult times three years ago as a valid reason to wipe my slate clean and treat me as a new fan.

As I said, I went to my first game before I even had a STH, aged 6 and it's one of the things that got me so hooked on football and Brighton & Hove Albion. The current system means that someone will be unable to take their son of around a similar age to their first away game unless

A) We're relegated.
B) They're willing to travel at least 400 miles* to get there. Not ideal with a young child.
C) They ask a friend to buy a ticket for their child, something which the club are already trying to clamp down on.

All of this is before you consider the fact that wiping ST points after one season means it's now suicide to give up your ticket, ushering in the potential for a similar situation to what Man United & Liverpool (amongst others) where Season Tickets are never canceled, merely passed on between family members because not only will you get to skip the waiting list, but you get to keep all of the points you'd built up, rather than having to wait EIGHT seasons to catch up with those ahead of you. And don't forget in those eight season they'll be able to hoover up somewhere between 3-10 local games that you can't get tickets for. So another 30-100 points per season. It's a broken system.

The system we had in place needed fine tuning, so the club took a sledgehammer to it, and I'd feel exactly the same way if I had benefited from the change. In fact last year I said the system needed tweaking to better represent fans who travel to less glamours games, despite the fact that every game I attended had at least 1800 Brighton fans in attendance. It's not about feeling hard-done by; although I do, it's about finding a system that's fair for everyone and doesn't just allow the same group of 4000ish Brighton fans to have a complete monopoly over away games.

*Assuming all games South of West Brom sell out to very high point members. Which they will
Click to expand...

An awful lot of us in this boat I'm afraid. I had a ST for both Gillingham years and 15.5 out of the 17 seasons at Withdean and the Amex. Plus every 'home game' is effectively an away game as I don't live in Sussex. I also do about 5-6 away games. Anymore of that and I'd be divorced! But that 1.5 seasons as a non STH put me back of the queue or as good as. Can I get away tickets this season? Very very difficult. I'm not eligible before they all go. But there are other means....anyone starting out supporting the Albion (listen up kids!), my advice is to 'network' and I don't just mean Albion fans! I know I'm going to get offered things through business by others who know I'm Brighton nuts (inc. when we were shit, that's actually what people recall!), all those pestering ex-colleagues and associates to sign petitions etc is finally paying off. For example, I got taken to Liverpool in the cup when I couldn't get Albion tickets. Ended up meeting Jimmy Case and having free hospitality without even paying for tickets. The kindness of relative strangers and all that. Now, that's not always the case. But you'll be amazed at how prepared people are to sort you out some tickets by just asking - we're not exactly top draw and plenty of people with ST's at other clubs won't be able to go and will be happy to offer theirs providing you're not a dick in home area. It's the way football has gone and ST culture is at the root cause. But it can be played the other way. Arsenal always declare 60k attendant but there'll be several thousand STH's not attending the Albion game, dotted all around the Emirates. Just gotta find 'em and strike lucky!

Fortunately I'm not desperate to see us play at most of the Premier grounds because I've seen us play in practically everyone before in years gone by, pre-Sky hype basically when anyone get in! So I'm happy to let the younger fans go and enjoy ahead of me. The only thing I dislike is corporate fans WHO ARE STILL WORKING OUT WHO THE TEAM IN BLUE AND WHITE ARE! (i.e. not those who have seen us through thick and thin as many have) getting ahead of me by virtue of affording more expensive Amex tickets for 2 or 3 seasons max. But again, this is just the way it is...and something's 'ill never change. So stand in line, marking time. Dem Rich 'ave always crapped on the Poor. Always have. Always will. :)
 




Official Old Man

Official Old Man

Uckfield Seagull
Aug 27, 2011
8,557
Brighton
I joined the 'closed shop' six years ago. Get to around a dozen away games each season and all this has cost me a lot of heartache and probably around £10,000
For my investment I intend going to a dozen away games again this year. Of course should you pop round with £10,000 I may be tempted to sell you my loyalty points.
 


portlock seagull

portlock seagull

Why? Why us?
Jul 28, 2003
17,078
Charlies Shinpad said:
If you do want to get an away game it's handy not to have a BN postcode as well
I got 4 tickets for Watford and we are sitting right next to the Albion fans
Click to expand...
This is exactly what I was on about. Get creative, the system can be beaten!!
 


portlock seagull

portlock seagull

Why? Why us?
Jul 28, 2003
17,078
I remember the good times said:
I joined the 'closed shop' six years ago. Get to around a dozen away games each season and all this has cost me a lot of heartache and probably around £10,000
For my investment I intend going to a dozen away games again this year. Of course should you pop round with £10,000 I may be tempted to sell you my loyalty points.
Click to expand...

I remember when I'd only paid around £10k following the Albion...several decades ago now...You've a lot of cash and heartache to come! ;)
 




neilbard

neilbard

Hedging up
Oct 8, 2013
6,245
Tyringham
portlock seagull said:
An awful lot of us in this boat I'm afraid. I had a ST for both Gillingham years and 15.5 out of the 17 seasons at Withdean and the Amex. Plus every 'home game' is effectively an away game as I don't live in Sussex. I also do about 5-6 away games. Anymore of that and I'd be divorced! But that 1.5 seasons as a non STH put me back of the queue or as good as. Can I get away tickets this season? Very very difficult. I'm not eligible before they all go. But there are other means....anyone starting out supporting the Albion (listen up kids!), my advice is to 'network' and I don't just mean Albion fans! I know I'm going to get offered things through business by others who know I'm Brighton nuts (inc. when we were shit, that's actually what people recall!), all those pestering ex-colleagues and associates to sign petitions etc is finally paying off. For example, I got taken to Liverpool in the cup when I couldn't get Albion tickets. Ended up meeting Jimmy Case and having free hospitality without even paying for tickets. The kindness of relative strangers and all that. Now, that's not always the case. But you'll be amazed at how prepared people are to sort you out some tickets by just asking - we're not exactly top draw and plenty of people with ST's at other clubs won't be able to go and will be happy to offer theirs providing you're not a dick in home area. It's the way football has gone and ST culture is at the root cause. But it can be played the other way. Arsenal always declare 60k attendant but there'll be several thousand STH's not attending the Albion game, dotted all around the Emirates. Just gotta find 'em and strike lucky!

Fortunately I'm not desperate to see us play at most of the Premier grounds because I've seen us play in practically everyone before in years gone by, pre-Sky hype basically when anyone get in! So I'm happy to let the younger fans go and enjoy ahead of me. The only thing I dislike is corporate fans WHO ARE STILL WORKING OUT WHO THE TEAM IN BLUE AND WHITE ARE! (i.e. not those who have seen us through thick and thin as many have) getting ahead of me by virtue of affording more expensive Amex tickets for 2 or 3 seasons max. But again, this is just the way it is...and something's 'ill never change. So stand in line, marking time. Dem Rich 'ave always crapped on the Poor. Always have. Always will. :)
Click to expand...

Your last paragraph is a crock shite mate. :shrug:
 




T

Turkey

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2003
15,568
Whitechapel said:
Bullshit.

I'm going to try and not go to "Super Fan"ish here, as I recognise my history supporting Brighton pales in comparison compared to some people on here,but I've had a season ticket every year since the 2000/01 season apart from the 2015/16 season where I had been out of work when it came to renewal time and come the start of the season I had a job, but it was a three month temporary contract on £6.50 an hour.

In short because of exterior reasons I had to cancel my Season Ticket. I was back to having one for the 16/17 season but alas missing one season means that the 14 previous consecutive seasons count for sweet F.A. Now, this isn't the fault of the club, but I still feel I have every reason to be royally f*cked off, especially when somebody who started watching Brighton when Oscar Garciawas manager dwarfs me when it comes to points, so I seriously think your point about people deserving the points they've worked for is inaccurate, because it's not that black and white.

It's all very well and good to say it's not a closed shop because Burnley, Swansea & Newcastle haven't sold out, but when I've been hooked on away games since I went to my first one, aged 6 in the 00/01 season (Orient away FWIW). When Iwas 7 or 8 years old my dream in life was to see Brighton play at stadiums such as Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge & Anfield. I now have no chance simply because the club deem me going through difficult times three years ago as a valid reason to wipe my slate clean and treat me as a new fan.

As I said, I went to my first game before I even had a STH, aged 6 and it's one of the things that got me so hooked on football and Brighton & Hove Albion. The current system means that someone will be unable to take their son of around a similar age to their first away game unless

A) We're relegated.
B) They're willing to travel at least 400 miles* to get there. Not ideal with a young child.
C) They ask a friend to buy a ticket for their child, something which the club are already trying to clamp down on.

All of this is before you consider the fact that wiping ST points after one season means it's now suicide to give up your ticket, ushering in the potential for a similar situation to what Man United & Liverpool (amongst others) where Season Tickets are never canceled, merely passed on between family members because not only will you get to skip the waiting list, but you get to keep all of the points you'd built up, rather than having to wait EIGHT seasons to catch up with those ahead of you. And don't forget in those eight season they'll be able to hoover up somewhere between 3-10 local games that you can't get tickets for. So another 30-100 points per season. It's a broken system.

The system we had in place needed fine tuning, so the club took a sledgehammer to it, and I'd feel exactly the same way if I had benefited from the change. In fact last year I said the system needed tweaking to better represent fans who travel to less glamours games, despite the fact that every game I attended had at least 1800 Brighton fans in attendance. It's not about feeling hard-done by; although I do, it's about finding a system that's fair for everyone and doesn't just allow the same group of 4000ish Brighton fans to have a complete monopoly over away games.

*Assuming all games South of West Brom sell out to very high point members. Which they will
Click to expand...

I'm sure there are many in your position. Seems a shame that they can't include all Amex seasons rather than consecutive. So 1 off doesn't hurt so much. I did voluntary work for the club for the first couple of season's at the Amex, no pay but really enjoyable. Downside now is I've lost out on two years worth of ST loyalty points which is a bit annoying, would have devestated if I'd done it a year ago or something though. Your point about taking kids is so true too. Must be loads of us with family and friends points all over the place too. As others have said though, no easy solution.
 






JC Footy Genius

JC Footy Genius

Bringer of TRUTH
Jun 9, 2015
10,568
The Leicester game initially sold out when only season ticket holders were eligible to get them. The amount of tickets being consistently drip fed back onto the site suggests many season ticket holders were getting more than they needed. Do season ticket holders have to allocate each ticket they get to someone with a fan number/history?
 


Whitechapel

Whitechapel

Famous Last Words
Jul 19, 2014
4,074
Not in Whitechapel
Turkey said:
I'm sure there are many in your position. Seems a shame that they can't include all Amex seasons rather than consecutive. So 1 off doesn't hurt so much. I did voluntary work for the club for the first couple of season's at the Amex, no pay but really enjoyable. Downside now is I've lost out on two years worth of ST loyalty points which is a bit annoying, would have devestated if I'd done it a year ago or something though. Your point about taking kids is so true too. Must be loads of us with family and friends points all over the place too. As others have said though, no easy solution.
Click to expand...

I feel there is an easy solution though.

A 5 year rolling time-frame, 50 points per season ticket, away/cup points done as they are now, but with cup tickets only working if used & the current rate of point drop off continued (i.e - 50% if not renewing, 10% if you are renewing) but also add a third tier where 90% of your points remain if you are a previous ST holder who is on the waiting list for another Season Ticket.

That way missing one season out of 5 is easily clawed back by somebody who goes to a handful of less glamours away games when he can and attends cup games when possible whilst still giving the Super Fans a clear advantage.

If you got a kid a ST at 6/7 (easier said than done, I know) then he'd be able to go to closer and closer away games as he got progressively older. By the time he's 15-17 he should have enough points to compete with most people regardless of how long they've been going. Then it either comes down to how many games they go to, or at 18/19 he can then go to uni, still make it to a few away games as he'll still have a solid points score, when he comes back he joins the waiting list and maintains the lions share of his points


The whole crux of the issue is the consecutive part. It really is completely and utterly detrimental, and serves no purpose. Sadly the club want to make giving up your season ticket to be the biggest punishment it can be; to keep ST's sold out, the renewal rate high and the waiting list as long as possible. IMO the club have deliberately caused a situation where there is a closed shop, because then they can dictate the only way to get in to that shop is to keep hold of your Season Ticket for as long as possible.
 




Charlies Shinpad

Charlies Shinpad

New member
Jul 5, 2003
4,415
Oakford in Devon
Just had a look at Swansea website and it seems there will be s lot of empty seats for our game as they are struggling to sell them for Palace
I've registered my interest on there site in case I can't get a ticket [emoji12]
 










Buzzer

Buzzer

Languidly Clinical
Oct 1, 2006
26,121
I think the scheme is far more equitable than previously and as others have said: if you're a ST holder of a few years prepared to go to a few away games that are not particularly fashionable then you can quickly put yourself into the top bracket of loyalty points. If you don't do this then you've no right to complain about having difficulty getting tickets to one of the big boys.

I would however make a slight adjustment and do what Watford do which is to hold 150 or so tickets back for long-distance away fans especially given that we do have fans that go regularly to away games but can't commit to a season ticket because of the distance. It's very easy to set up - say a £30 away season ticket cost each year and only available to those who are more than, say, 2 hours away from the Amex. Run it alongside the home ST scheme with a maximum number and a waiting list with priority for the 150 set aside tickets going to those in the scheme proper and then if any are still available open to those on the waiting list.

If we stay up for a few seasons I'm sure everyone who wants to go to a big game and has been to a few away games a season will get a chance to go. Maybe not straight away but it will happen.
 


Beach Hut

Beach Hut

Brighton Bhuna Boy
Jul 5, 2003
71,971
Living In a Box
JC Footy Genius said:
The Leicester game initially sold out when only season ticket holders were eligible to get them. The amount of tickets being consistently drip fed back onto the site suggests many season ticket holders were getting more than they needed. Do season ticket holders have to allocate each ticket they get to someone with a fan number/history?
Click to expand...

Yes you have to allocate each ticket to someone on your friends and family eligible for a ticket with the correct amount of points.

You cannot just log on and buy six
 


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