women euro 2017....

sussex_guy2k2 · Aug 3, 2017

WATFORD zero said:
So that's a yes then

I'm waiting with baited breath for your opinion on Mozart, Einstein, Plato and numerous other subjects on which you are equally qualified

You're an idiot aren't you. We're on a football forum. Everyone here has an opinion on football, and 99.9% of people won't have played to a high level. But because you don't like my opinion, you're making an irrelevant point to try and back up your opinion.

The worrying thing is that you're implying you think the standard in this match has been high. That suggests your football knowledge is scarily limited, but no doubt you'll tell me you're secretly Messi.

Please come back to me when you have an argument worth listening to.

PILTDOWN MAN · Aug 3, 2017

Wellesley said:
I've been impressed with the standard. It's vastly improved over the last ten years.

The money and moreover the facilities that's been put into women's football it should have. The issue remains with grassroots still in its infancy there's still a small pool of players to pick from. A technically very average girl will have far more opportunity to progress than an equal boy. Of course given the facilities and coaching available their standard should rise but you can't work miracles.

To me the biggest problem is there doesn't appear to be much difference between players i.e. the defenders could be wingers who could be forwards.

No matter how much the authorities thrust forwards women's football it will remain mainly a participator pastime much as football is to the majority of male footballers who play it.

hart's shirt · Aug 3, 2017

This tournament was supposed to be all about how much fitter, how much 'togetherness' and how much more belief there was in the squad.

But when the key game came, England were found wanting.

Outplayed, outmuscled and outcoached.

The wait continues.

PILTDOWN MAN · Aug 3, 2017

hart's shirt said:
This tournament was supposed to be all about how much fitter, how much 'togetherness' and how much more belief there was in the squad.

But when the key game came, England were found wanting.

Outplayed, outmuscled and outcoached.

The wait continues.

Outcoached unfortunately. Just didn't appear to have any tactics beyond that of a park team. Not the girls fault.

hart's shirt · Aug 3, 2017

Plooks said:
What were you expecting from an England team!?

You're right, I should know it by now! But it's so easy to get caught up in the hype and the relentless championing on the BBC website.

The Dutch, on around 20% of the investment put into the English game, have made a final at only their 4th major tournament.

True, they had home advantage. But they were clearly the better team tonight despite being ranked lower.

It's a very poor day at the office.

WATFORD zero · Aug 3, 2017

sussex_guy2k2 said:
You're an idiot aren't you. We're on a football forum. Everyone here has an opinion on football, and 99.9% of people won't have played to a high level. But because you don't like my opinion, you're making an irrelevant point to try and back up your opinion.

The worrying thing is that you're implying you think the standard in this match has been high. That suggests your football knowledge is scarily limited, but no doubt you'll tell me you're secretly Messi.

Please come back to me when you have an argument worth listening to.

I have seen the light and now realise that your opinion is just as valid as one put forward with knowledge and experience.

And if you really think that standard was poor then you've seen very little of the majority of football played in England

Kalimantan Gull · Aug 3, 2017

PILTDOWN MAN said:
The money and moreover the facilities that's been put into women's football it should have. The issue remains with grassroots still in its infancy there's still a small pool of players to pick from. A technically very average girl will have far more opportunity to progress than an equal boy. Of course given the facilities and coaching available their standard should rise but you can't work miracles.

To me the biggest problem is there doesn't appear to be much difference between players i.e. the defenders could be wingers who could be forwards.

No matter how much the authorities thrust forwards women's football it will remain mainly a participator pastime much as football is to the majority of male footballers who play it.

do you have a daughter who plays football?

I do, she plays U12's in Cornwall and the number of teams and players is growing hugely. 25 teams now so they've split it East and West. This is Cornwall so I have to assume in the cities and elsewhere it is considerably bigger. My daughters club squad has over 30 girls now across two age groups and the quality is impressive, their coach has a UEFA B license and is very good. Its a far cry from two years ago when they had to play mixed football with the boys teams.

Kalimantan Gull · Aug 3, 2017

sussex_guy2k2 said:
You're an idiot aren't you. We're on a football forum. Everyone here has an opinion on football, and 99.9% of people won't have played to a high level. But because you don't like my opinion, you're making an irrelevant point to try and back up your opinion.

The worrying thing is that you're implying you think the standard in this match has been high. That suggests your football knowledge is scarily limited, but no doubt you'll tell me you're secretly Messi.

Please come back to me when you have an argument worth listening to.

I think the standard is pretty good. That wasn't the best game, true, but from what I've seen technically they are all very solid, perhaps better than you get in lower league men's football I reckon. Their positional play is spot on and they are also quick and cover ground very well. What seems to be lacking are flair players, players who get the ball and take it past a couple, are prepared to try something different. To a point I see this at junior age ranges at my girl's club, the girls play much better team football, pass and move and when they are up against a weaker opposition they take them to pieces but when the opposition are similar standard they do tend to nullify each other. The boys by contrast are much more about certain key individuals, getting the ball to the star player and watching him do his tricks and flicks.

But I'm certain we'll see a dramatic increase in standards over the next decade, there are just so many girls playing now. My daughter has just been selected for the Cornwall county squad and I reckon the U12's are substantially better than the U14's, who are light years ahead of the U16's. Much more competition in the lower age groups just because of sheer numbers picking it up at a young age now.

PILTDOWN MAN · Aug 3, 2017

Kalimantan Gull said:
do you have a daughter who plays football?

I do, she plays U12's in Cornwall and the number of teams and players is growing hugely. 25 teams now so they've split it East and West. This is Cornwall so I have to assume in the cities and elsewhere it is considerably bigger. My daughters club squad has over 30 girls now across two age groups and the quality is impressive, their coach has a UEFA B license and is very good. Its a far cry from two years ago when they had to play mixed football with the boys teams.

No I don't but I coach at a local club. We do have girl only teams. They tend to have travel further to play in a league than the boys and that causes its own issues.

As you say it is getting better but here in East Sussex (Sedlescombe) we appear to be behind the curve.

PILTDOWN MAN · Aug 3, 2017

Kalimantan Gull said:
I think the standard is pretty good. That wasn't the best game, true, but from what I've seen technically they are all very solid, perhaps better than you get in lower league men's football I reckon. Their positional play is spot on and they are also quick and cover ground very well. What seems to be lacking are flair players, players who get the ball and take it past a couple, are prepared to try something different. To a point I see this at junior age ranges at my girl's club, the girls play much better team football, pass and move and when they are up against a weaker opposition they take them to pieces but when the opposition are similar standard they do tend to nullify each other. The boys by contrast are much more about certain key individuals, getting the ball to the star player and watching him do his tricks and flicks.

.

That was the point I was making there doesn't appear to much difference between different positions in the girls game, effectively they could all play in all positions.

sussex_guy2k2 · Aug 4, 2017

WATFORD zero said:
I have seen the light and now realise that your opinion is just as valid as one put forward with knowledge and experience.

And if you really think that standard was poor then you've seen very little of the majority of football played in England

You don't have to play football to a high standard to be able to recognise what a good level of football is. So again, your point is irrelevant.

As to my experience, you're right, I've not personally played at a really high level. However, I have worked with football coaches who have worked at professional clubs and in professional academies. I also watch live football almost every weekend (like most on here) as well as taking in most football I can on TV, no matter the level. So I'm a fairly good judge. And the reality is that that Crawley team we thrashed 6-0 two weekends ago would've comfortably beaten that England team tonight.

If you'd like to suggest why you think the standard is so high (and actually offer a valid point of view), then I'd love to hear your actual football analysis so we can debate that as you're yet to make a valid point.

sussex_guy2k2 · Aug 4, 2017

Kalimantan Gull said:
I think the standard is pretty good. That wasn't the best game, true, but from what I've seen technically they are all very solid, perhaps better than you get in lower league men's football I reckon. Their positional play is spot on and they are also quick and cover ground very well. What seems to be lacking are flair players, players who get the ball and take it past a couple, are prepared to try something different. To a point I see this at junior age ranges at my girl's club, the girls play much better team football, pass and move and when they are up against a weaker opposition they take them to pieces but when the opposition are similar standard they do tend to nullify each other. The boys by contrast are much more about certain key individuals, getting the ball to the star player and watching him do his tricks and flicks.

But I'm certain we'll see a dramatic increase in standards over the next decade, there are just so many girls playing now. My daughter has just been selected for the Cornwall county squad and I reckon the U12's are substantially better than the U14's, who are light years ahead of the U16's. Much more competition in the lower age groups just because of sheer numbers picking it up at a young age now.

I appreciate your point of view, and your reasons for wanting it to succeed, but I disagree. The standard last night was not yet at the level of men's professional league football. Tactically, England in particular were all over the place. The team was stretched to a level that no international team should be and meant their forward players were consistently isolated. This led to long ball after long ball and with many players lacking a good first touch, the ball simply didn't stick.

Maybe it was just a one off, poor game, but as a one off viewer, I can't imagine I'd ever go back to watching after seeing that. I do, however, hope it has inspired your daughter and hopefully the coaching young women will receive will continue to improve so that they can continue to improve the standard.

ozzygull · Aug 4, 2017

Can't believe that people are still going on about if women can play as well as men. Who gives a sh!t? I went to the game last night with some Dutch friends, and it was the best atmosphere I have witnessed at a football game, the whole stadium was rocking, even before the game kicked off. England should've had a penalty, which would have made it 1-1 but it was not to be and the Dutch were worthy winners.

What was different from the men's game was there was no diving, no rolling around on the floor pretending to be injured, and no arguing with officials, even though there were some very dubious decisions.

I will definitely be going to watch more women's football.

Mellotron · Aug 4, 2017

Re: the standard, I found it a hard one to judge. Occasionally the women would do something that would be of League One/Two standard, but then equally occasionally you'd see a first touch or a bit of decision making that was of a level far, far below that. At a guess I'd equate it to around Vanarama South/North kinda level?

What I found surprising is how different the style of play is in the women's game. For one thing, there is no qualms whatsoever about giving the ball away. Seen a few games now where a lot of the possession is spent just lumping it forward randomly and hoping Taylor(?) would win a race against opposition defenders.

Napier's Knee · Aug 4, 2017

I watched both semis yesterday and it is clear that the key to success in women's football is technique and organization. The Dutch had some flair players and the Denmark team had great attitude. Meanwhile England are very obviously all about route 1 - two immobile central defenders, by-pass the midfield, and kick long. I also got the impression that the England players and coach believe their own hype. The problems with England are all about coaching and attitude - get a competent coach (and stop cheating - the England team were cheating a lot - dives, stamps on feet etc etc), and they could be good.

hans kraay fan club · Aug 4, 2017

Mellotron said:
Re: the standard, I found it a hard one to judge. Occasionally the women would do something that would be of League One/Two standard, but then equally occasionally you'd see a first touch or a bit of decision making that was of a level far, far below that. At a guess I'd equate it to around Vanarama South/North kinda level?

What I found surprising is how different the style of play is in the women's game. For one thing, there is no qualms whatsoever about giving the ball away. Seen a few games now where a lot of the possession is spent just lumping it forward randomly and hoping Taylor(?) would win a race against opposition defenders.

I also commented during the game, on decision making. Very poor at times. The levels of technique though, is decent - far improved from women's football of ten or more years ago. A couple of moments of genuine quality that would have graced any game - the move for the first goal, and the superb chipped pass to set Taylor in on the keeper with about ten minutes left.

The constant wish of some to compare it with the men's game is utterly pointless though - they are DIFFERENT.

Nobody watches Jessica Ennis and moans that she's inferior to male decathletes, do they? :shrug:

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