Page 12 of 12 FirstFirst ... 29101112
Results 111 to 118 of 118
  1. #111
    Members
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Sussex
    Posts
    1,256


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Merry Prankster View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Substitute "equality' for 'fairness'. If it helps. Inequality can be measured.

    Great debating technique to link something perfectly reasonable with something extreme. Vote Labour - you must support Hamas.

    Firstly I'm talking about addressing current inequality not historic and secondly what I'm suggesting is that if the process causes the pendulum to swing slightly the other way for a short period then that is a price worth paying.
    Equality has nothing to do with fairness. You are talking about equality of outcome. How you view the world should be. On top of that, what you suggested was not fairness. You suggested punishing a group of people based purely on the colour of skin. "a little unfairness" you seem to think is fine..

    Equality of opportunity is all we should be seeking. If you can point out the individuals or companies that are not doing this then I will be happy to stand alongside you and see them punished.

    • North Stand Chat

      advertising
      Join Date: Jul 2003
      Posts: Lots

        


    • #112
      Pactum serva The Merry Prankster's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 2006
      Location
      Shoreham Beach
      Posts
      5,152


      0 Not allowed!
      Quote Originally Posted by Rod Marsh View Post
      This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
      Equality has nothing to do with fairness. You are talking about equality of outcome. How you view the world should be. On top of that, what you suggested was not fairness. You suggested punishing a group of people based purely on the colour of skin. "a little unfairness" you seem to think is fine..

      Equality of opportunity is all we should be seeking. If you can point out the individuals or companies that are not doing this then I will be happy to stand alongside you and see them punished.
      As I understand it Equallity of opportunity means - even one is free to apply for a job, equality of outcome means - everyone has an equal chance of getting said job. You could argue and I would that that is "fair".

      I have worked in places where everyone could apply for jobs, a mixture of people may be called for interview but the job was only ever going to go to a white male and it wasn't on merit. That is both unequal and unfair.
      Half measures availed us nothing.
    • #113
      Members
      Join Date
      Aug 2013
      Location
      Sussex
      Posts
      1,256


      3 Not allowed!
      Quote Originally Posted by The Merry Prankster View Post
      This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
      As I understand it Equallity of opportunity means - even one is free to apply for a job, equality of outcome means - everyone has an equal chance of getting said job. You could argue and I would that that is "fair".

      I have worked in places where everyone could apply for jobs, a mixture of people may be called for interview but the job was only ever going to go to a white male and it wasn't on merit. That is both unequal and unfair.
      I'm sad to hear that. How do you know the white male got the job purely on the colour of his skin? Sadly, stopping individual racism is impossible. However, punishing an entire group of people to make things "less unfair" is not right. It could also be described as racism. If you are giving advantage to a group of people over others because of the colour of skin. Everything should be done on an individual level in my opinion. As soon as this "group justice" comes in to play that's when it all goes wrong as it takes away from the individual justice.
    • #114
      Pactum serva The Merry Prankster's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 2006
      Location
      Shoreham Beach
      Posts
      5,152


      0 Not allowed!
      Quote Originally Posted by Rod Marsh View Post
      This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
      I'm sad to hear that. How do you know the white male got the job purely on the colour of his skin? Sadly, stopping individual racism is impossible. However, punishing an entire group of people to make things "less unfair" is not right. It could also be described as racism. If you are giving advantage to a group of people over others because of the colour of skin. Everything should be done on an individual level in my opinion. As soon as this "group justice" comes in to play that's when it all goes wrong as it takes away from the individual justice.
      Your response is, seemingly, a contradiction. "Sadly stopping individual racism is impossible"..............."Eve rything should be done on an individual level".

      I know the some of the other applicants didn't on the basis of their skin colour. Seemingly reasonable discussions about 'different cultures" and 'upsetting the balance of the workforce" etc. the mealymouthed corporate face of racism.
      Half measures availed us nothing.
    • #115
      Members
      Join Date
      Aug 2013
      Location
      Sussex
      Posts
      1,256


      0 Not allowed!
      Quote Originally Posted by The Merry Prankster View Post
      This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
      Your response is, seemingly, a contradiction. "Sadly stopping individual racism is impossible"..............."Eve rything should be done on an individual level".

      I know the some of the other applicants didn't on the basis of their skin colour. Seemingly reasonable discussions about 'different cultures" and 'upsetting the balance of the workforce" etc. the mealymouthed corporate face of racism.
      Justice should be served on an individual, not at group level. Stopping racism at an individual level is impossible. I hope that makes it a bit clearer.
    • #116
      Members Albion my Albion's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 2016
      Location
      Darlington, UK
      Posts
      3,024


      1 Not allowed!
      Quote Originally Posted by Rod Marsh View Post
      This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
      OK, so the NBA is dominated by black men. Are white men discriminated against because they have a low representation level in the league? Of course they are not.
      It's interesting. There is a debate among Americans that NBA teams try extremely hard to find white American talent so that their fans can identify with more of the players. At one time the Boston Celtics we're accused of signing more white players, Larry Bird, Danny Ainge, Bill Walton, Dave Cowan's, Kevin McHale, John Havlicek, etc. Boston just signed one of the best American white players in the NBA, Gordon Hayward. But the reason was mostly because his college coach, Brad Stevens, is now the Celtics coach.
      Never regret yesterday. Life is in you today, and you make your tomorrow.

      ---- L. Ron Hubbard
    • #117

      1 Not allowed!
      Quote Originally Posted by The Merry Prankster View Post
      This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
      As I understand it Equallity of opportunity means - even one is free to apply for a job, equality of outcome means - everyone has an equal chance of getting said job. You could argue and I would that that is "fair".

      I have worked in places where everyone could apply for jobs, a mixture of people may be called for interview but the job was only ever going to go to a white male and it wasn't on merit. That is both unequal and unfair.
      Then surely said employer was reported to appropriate people where a quick case investigation would prove the point.
    • #118
      Members
      Join Date
      Aug 2013
      Location
      Sussex
      Posts
      1,256


      1 Not allowed!
      Quote Originally Posted by Albion my Albion View Post
      This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
      It's interesting. There is a debate among Americans that NBA teams try extremely hard to find white American talent so that their fans can identify with more of the players. At one time the Boston Celtics we're accused of signing more white players, Larry Bird, Danny Ainge, Bill Walton, Dave Cowan's, Kevin McHale, John Havlicek, etc. Boston just signed one of the best American white players in the NBA, Gordon Hayward. But the reason was mostly because his college coach, Brad Stevens, is now the Celtics coach.
      Exactly, can you imagine the uproar now if an NBA team owner declared they wanted more white men in the squad so that it matched the viewing audience/customer base. The uproar would be out of this world.

      It's common practice now for business to try and employ more women or people from minority groups to reflect customer base etc and this is considered by many as a non discriminatory practice. I argue that by promoting one group of people that you discriminate against anyone not in that group.

      It's such a mess. When did people stop identifying as individuals and instead belonging in a group? The victim mentality it creates is so harmful. I find it very sad.

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
yyy