The Official 104th Tour de France thread

Pogue Mahone · Jul 22, 2017

Triggaaar said:
They didn't win the Tour. And Wiggo didn't come back after winning it. Froome is a great rider, and IMO deserves some respect.

Yeah, it turned out that not only were they all doping, so were all of their rivals. Chris has been just a few seconds ahead of his rivals all tour, there have been no superhuman mountain climes or any reason to suspect him of doping.

That was some time ago and not involving Froome. Not like the clean and respected Contador eh

To be clear, I am NOT accusing Froome of doping. I think he is riding clean.

It is Sky's absolute dominance and complete control of the race that is so similar to Armstrong's teams - it is monotonous, and the depth of their squad makes it incredibly hard for anyone else to win individually. People boo Chelsea, Real Madrid, Juve, Bayern Munich etc. for similar reasons.

The unexplained packages detracted from Sky's evangelical anti-doping stance, and for some, mud sticks - particularly when it is attached to a much disliked team.

Weststander · Jul 22, 2017

1234andcounting said:
Strange thing, the emotion that sport can generate.

Especially with old friend football:

Triggaaar · Jul 22, 2017

Pogue Mahone said:
To be clear, I am NOT accusing Froome of doping.

I know.

I think he is riding clean.

If he is doping, he's not doing it right

It is Sky's absolute dominance and complete control of the race that is so similar to Armstrong's teams - it is monotonous, and the depth of their squad makes it incredibly hard for anyone else to win individually.

Aru did take the lead, and if he was as strong as Froome, he could have won. It's more necessary to have the best team when you know that the others are all against you. All that really happened in the Tour is that Sky controlled the races, with Froome, Aru and Bardet all following along, so not actually much advantage to Froome.

People boo Chelsea, Real Madrid, Juve, Bayern Munich etc. for similar reasons.

I didn't know people booed them :shrug:

The unexplained packages detracted from Sky's evangelical anti-doping stance, and for some, mud sticks - particularly when it is attached to a much disliked team.

Yes, that's understandable.

Hamilton · Jul 22, 2017

Stat Brother said:
The French youngsters are showing plenty of potential, I think Sky will snap one or two of up, as potential long term replacements for Froome.
With the added bonus of instantly winning hearts and minds, across the channel.

Nobody forced (although the rather large payslip helps) Kwia into a Sky jersey.
Sky hardly blunted his 2017 palmares, what with brilliant rides to San Remo and Strade Bianche, and top 10's across the spring.

I don't know why you keep bemoaning Sky's 'super team' dominance, it's been a fact of life in cycling long before all their current riders were born.

No team has ever had (or paid big money for) a Tour favourite and said, 'crack on son, you're good enough to win this on your own'.

I would love to see Sky win it with a Frenchman. That would just be hilariously brilliant.

I agree with Stat. Why people moan about Sky is beyond me. They pay big bucks, but there are other teams also paying significant sums. Sky work as a team, and they are good at it. Time for the other teams to step up a bit. Their Directeurs should hold their heads in, if not shame, then admission that they haven't tried hard enough.

Well done Froome and the whole Sky Team. Sky can only beat what is put in front of them.

Pogue Mahone · Jul 22, 2017

Triggaaar said:
I know.
If he is doping, he's not doing it right

Aru did take the lead, and if he was as strong as Froome, he could have won. It's more necessary to have the best team when you know that the others are all against you. All that really happened in the Tour is that Sky controlled the races, with Froome, Aru and Bardet all following along, so not actually much advantage to Froome.

I didn't know people booed them

Yes, that's understandable.

There was a huge advantage to Froome. If you have four riders with you from your team and the other contenders have none there are so many tactical options open to you - sending a rider up the road, taking it in turns to attack, supporting your rider back to the front if he has a problem etc. The other contenders didn't just become surrogate members of the Sky train.

Aru did take the lead, but he was never going to be strong enough to be a real contender. When going up the climbs he reminded me of me on a club ride - out of the saddle and going hell for leather to keep with the group, who are all cruising comfortably along.

Stat Brother · Jul 22, 2017

This years Tour top 10

- Sky rider
- Former Sky rider, riding for an 'oh we're so poor' American team.
- Young Frenchie on domestic team
- Sky rider
- The customary Italian flattering to deceive.
- Rough diamond rider in a Belgium team who don't have GC clue.
- Youngster #1
- Youngster #2
- One last hoorah
- KoM young Frenchie, riding for Giro winning team.

All that in the closest ridden Tour EVER, after the closest Giro.

To me the future looks very healthy, mainly thanks to the trickle down economics of Sky and Sky's R&D.

If Sky had had the same effect in soccerball it would still be called football :lol:

Weststander · Jul 22, 2017

Hamilton said:
I would love to see Sky win it with a Frenchman. That would just be hilariously brilliant.

I agree with Stat. Why people moan about Sky is beyond me. They pay big bucks, but there are other teams also paying significant sums. Sky work as a team, and they are good at it. Time for the other teams to step up a bit. Their Directeurs should hold their heads in, if not shame, then admission that they haven't tried hard enough.

Well done Froome and the whole Sky Team. Sky can only beat what is put in front of them.

This. The others teams, many backed by huge continental conglomerates and with a wealth of cycling knowledge, have had many years now to follow and usurp Sky.

Shirley the many great sporting and management brains on the continent, can challenge the non-secret genius of Brailsford & co?

Deleted member 22389 · Jul 22, 2017

When is Froome going to do the Giro, then The Tour

1066familyman · Jul 22, 2017

Stat Brother said:
This years Tour top 10

- Sky rider
- Former Sky rider, riding for an 'oh we're so poor' American team.
- Young Frenchie on domestic team
- Sky rider
- The customary Italian flattering to deceive.
- Rough diamond rider in a Belgium team who don't have GC clue.
- Youngster #1
- Youngster #2
- One last hoorah
- KoM young Frenchie, riding for Giro winning team.

All that in the closest ridden Tour EVER, after the closest Giro.

To me the future looks very healthy, mainly thanks to the tickle down economics of Sky and Sky's R&D.

If Sky had had the same effect in soccerball it would still be called football

Top marks for effort!

I particularly like the Adam Smith reference.
Blimey, I might buy myself a full Sky kit ( for the marginal gains you understand) and vote Tory at the next election now. I think I've finally seen the light!

Weststander · Jul 22, 2017

Stat Brother said:
This years Tour top 10

- Sky rider
- Former Sky rider, riding for an 'oh we're so poor' American team.
- Young Frenchie on domestic team
- Sky rider
- The customary Italian flattering to deceive.
- Rough diamond rider in a Belgium team who don't have GC clue.
- Youngster #1
- Youngster #2
- One last hoorah
- KoM young Frenchie, riding for Giro winning team.

All that in the closest ridden Tour EVER, after the closest Giro.

To me the future looks very healthy, mainly thanks to the tickle down economics of Sky and Sky's R&D.

If Sky had had the same effect in soccerball it would still be called football

Good post. And it's not all about the GC.

The sprint finishes, daily breakaways that succeed and other great climbers not in the GC who starred, make it as good a spectacle as ever.

Stat Brother · Jul 22, 2017

Pogue Mahone said:
There was a huge advantage to Froome. If you have four riders with you from your team and the other contenders have none there are so many tactical options open to you - sending a rider up the road, taking it in turns to attack, supporting your rider back to the front if he has a problem etc. The other contenders didn't just become surrogate members of the Sky train.

That's not entirely fair, AG2R took it to Froome and Sky a couple of times, showing how it can be done.
Teams that think they have a chance, have to be smarter, and the way courses are being designed more teams are going to think they have a chance.

Pogue Mahone said:
Aru did take the lead, but he was never going to be strong enough to be a real contender. When going up the climbs he reminded me of me on a club ride - out of the saddle and going hell for leather to keep with the group, who are all cruising comfortably along.

Don't let 1066 hear you say that. :lol:

Stat Brother · Jul 22, 2017

1066familyman said:
Top marks for effort!

I particularly like the Adam Smith reference.
Blimey, I might buy myself a full Sky kit ( for the marginal gains you understand) and vote Tory at the next election now. I think I've finally seen the light!

Who the hell is Adam Smith?

Pogue Mahone · Jul 22, 2017

Stat Brother said:
That's not entirely fair, AG2R took it to Froome and Sky a couple of times, showing how it can be done.
Teams that think they have a chance, have to be smarter, and the way courses are being designed more teams are going to think they have a chance.

But until they can attract the quality of riders in the quantity that Sky have then these moments will be few and far between. On the long climbs it was only Sky who consistently had a large contingent left to support their team leader.

Money talks.

Pogue Mahone · Jul 22, 2017

Stat Brother said:
Who the hell is Adam Smith?

An economist. Probably the one who talked about trickle down economics.

Stat Brother · Jul 22, 2017

Pogue Mahone said:
But until they can attract the quality of riders in the quantity that Sky have then these moments will be few and far between. On the long climbs it was only Sky who consistently had a large contingent left to support their team leader.

Money talks.

Oh definitely, but they aren't too far off.
The same might to said of Sunweb, but that's such a bag of Revels they could end up all peanut or all coffee (see what I did there!! )

Also that's where the parcours changing ought to help, nobody inc Froome is surprised he didn't win a stage, with the exception of Iszard, none of them were nailed on Froome stages.
If Sky want to lead up the long climbs, fine that's not going to scare Barbet, Uran, Landa et al, it didn't this year.
But everyone else needs to be cuter elsewhere across the race.
.

Tyrone Biggums · Jul 22, 2017

Stat Brother said:
Who the hell is Adam Smith?

The Godfather of Classical Libertarianism.

Triggaaar · Jul 22, 2017

Pogue Mahone said:
There was a huge advantage to Froome. If you have four riders with you from your team and the other contenders have none there are so many tactical options open to you - sending a rider up the road, taking it in turns to attack, supporting your rider back to the front if he has a problem etc. The other contenders didn't just become surrogate members of the Sky train.

Yes I know how it works. But because Sky were favourites and always leading, the onus was always on them to be at the front, and it's not like Bardet etc had no teammates.

Aru did take the lead, but he was never going to be strong enough to be a real contender. When going up the climbs he reminded me of me on a club ride - out of the saddle and going hell for leather to keep with the group, who are all cruising comfortably along.

I didn't think that early in the tour, just as it went on he seemed to run out of steam. And I think he made a mistake responding to attacks from Bardet, he should have let Froome chase Bardet down.

Pogue Mahone · Jul 22, 2017

Stat Brother said:
Oh definitely, but they aren't too far off.
The same might to said of Sunweb, but that's such a bag of Revels they could end up all peanut or all coffee (see what I did there!! )

Also that's where the parcours changing ought to help, nobody inc Froome is surprised he didn't win a stage, with the exception of Iszard, none of them were nailed on Froome stages.
If Sky want to lead up the long climbs, fine that's not going to scare Barbet, Uran, Landa et al, it didn't this year.
But everyone else needs to be cuter elsewhere across the race.
.

It'll be lovely if you're right.

It would have been interesting to have seen how BMC and Porte would have done this year, and Quintana should never have doubled up with the Giro. He was a shadow of the rider we've seen, and the lack of Valverde didn't help.

Personally, I hope that Estaban Chaves can return to full fitness and become a contender. I love the Orica team, and with him and the Yates, who knows? Also, a friend's son rides for Orica - he rode the TdF last year. He has turned down better paid opportunities at other teams as he loves it there so much.

Stat Brother · Jul 22, 2017

Pogue Mahone said:
An economist. Probably the one who talked about trickle down economics.

Tyrone Biggums said:
The Godfather of Classical Libertarianism.

So he never rode for Banesto.

Triggaaar · Jul 22, 2017

Stat Brother said:
If Sky want to lead up the long climbs, fine that's not going to scare ... Landa

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