Seasonal Farm Worker Shortage

sussex_guy2k2 · Jun 22, 2017

Cheeky Monkey said:
Is it me or is this whole thing somewhat unsavoury? You've got UK farms bemoaning their inability to attract migrant workers from Eastern Europe because of Brexit uncertainty and a weak pound, but surely there's an issue of slave wages being paid etc. I appreciate UK farming is 'on its knees' but to bemoan not being able to essentially 'exploit' cheap Albanian labour stinks somewhat, to me anyway.

Your ignorance is scary. Slave wages? You mean our national minimum wage?

And to moan that they can't exploit cheap labour stinks does it? Well maybe you should go and speak to all of the English people who are happier to sit at home than go out and actually work for their money. In that scenario, businesses wouldn't be having to rely so heavily on migrant labour.

Out of curiosity, seeing as you have such an issue with this yet you haven't offered up a single solution, how do you expect agricultural, manufacturing and horticultural businesses to survive if they dont pay at least some workers on minimum wage?

Westdene Seagull · Jun 22, 2017

giveusfalmerplease said:
A relative of mine lost their job after 15 years as their firm went bust and even with benefit caps etc their council tax saving, benefits etc mean that she was only £20 per MONTH worse off not working.

I'd love to know how she's managed that. Given she had worked for so long she would be claiming contribution based JSA. If you get this then you can, depending upon other circumstances, get a discount on your council tax ( not always though ). This JSA only lasts six months and then you're by yourself.

sussex_guy2k2 · Jun 22, 2017

n1 gull said:
If we can't import 'cheap' labour from Europe can we not just import it from elsewhere, I am sure there would be people from poorer countries who would love to work here and then take some well earned money home, or am I being naive?

That's the irony of Brexit. We leave the EU because most British people want EU migration down, but what they don't realise is that migration from elsewhere will go up.

The only positive is that the Tories will do their best to do away with Human Rights law given a chance, so such workers (and ourselves) will be pushed harder and harder for our money.

Cheeky Monkey · Jun 22, 2017

studio150 said:
What's Brexit got to do with Albania?

or have I missed something and Albania is now an EU member state.

See the bit that says 'a weak pound' which is what one UK farmer mentioned relation to the difficulty in attracting Albanian labour, plus general immigration visa issues.

sussex_guy2k2 · Jun 22, 2017

giveusfalmerplease said:
Yes this is it in a nutshell. People born and living in the UK basically get so many benefits these days IT DOES NOT PAY them to work. A relative of mine lost their job after 15 years as their firm went bust and even with benefit caps etc their council tax saving, benefits etc mean that she was only £20 per MONTH worse off not working. Now to suggest to these type of people - go work in a field for 60 hours a week, pay your own travelling expenses, pay tax and national insurance on that and lose your council tax benefit so you end up over £100 a week LESS , its just not going to happen. Until the government allow people to keep benefits and work but maybe they have to pay higher rate tax , this situation will persist.

Compare that with the European summer intake of workers - they come here for a working holiday in the caravans - low overheads, no council tax bills, probably can even park their caravans where they work, earn the money (and like others have said probably 4 times what they would get in Eastern Europe - say Ukraine). Summers over they go home, nice wedge in their pockets that helps them survive the winter months. Good luck to them.

All bang on the money.

East Preston Gull · Jun 22, 2017

We used to queue up at Roundstone farm, in school holidays to pick the fruit and veg to earn some cash. If you were there early, you were chosen.

Kids and over educated youths won't do this sort of work or are not allowed for legal reasons.

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

Raleigh Chopper · Jun 22, 2017

Land girls we need the return of land girls.
Times are tough our backs are against the wall and we are at a sort of war with Europe.
We need to get the crops in to save our country.
Keep calm and carry on, your country needs you.
And you get a roll in a haystack with one after work, win win.

BigGully · Jun 22, 2017

hans kraay fan club said:
It's 'different' yes, but the result is the same - nursing posts unfilled, leading to reduced services.

Are Labour's proposals to INCREASE staff then? Or just to stop CUTTING numbers from where they are / were?

I can read without capitals by the way.

Without studying the issue how can I or you know what is the appropriate number of nurses might be, do we go by the unions or privately drafted paper, I can only go on my own experiences which have been fantastic, at the same time when I walk through a hospital I am amazed at the size of the buildings, the staffing levels and equipment everywhere, at least if you walked into Apple Inc. you can appreciate the £Billions worth of sales at the other end but the scale of the NHS its pretty daunting.

One Love · Jun 22, 2017

BigGully said:
or a Tory approach of trying to find that point where the care remains high and the staffing levels appropriate.

Please don't tell me you believe this BS!

I suppose this is what they are doing with the Police and in education as well.

ManOfSussex · Jun 22, 2017

Raleigh Chopper said:
Land girls we need the return of land girls.
Times are tough our backs are against the wall and we are at a sort of war with Europe.
We need to get the crops in to save our country.
Keep calm and carry on, your country needs you.
And you get a roll in a haystack with one after work, win win.

Dig for Brexit!

Raleigh Chopper · Jun 22, 2017

For the few disabled people who have not had their benefits taken away and shoved back to work this could be a way to get the stragglers back into meaningful employment.
Straw may be needed to stop the wheels getting stuck in the mud and they may tip out of their chair when reaching down to pull the spuds out but very surprised Theresa has not ordered this, she must have other things on her mind.

Papa Lazarou · Jun 22, 2017

East Preston Gull said:
We used to queue up at Roundstone farm, in school holidays to pick the fruit and veg to earn some cash. If you were there early, you were chosen.

Kids and over educated youths won't do this sort of work or are not allowed for legal reasons.

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

My Dad used to do summer fruit picking as a kid to earn some extra pocket money. I'd wager many parents wouldn't even consider letting their teenage kids our of their sight these days, irrespective of the legal position.

hans kraay fan club · Jun 22, 2017

BigGully said:
Without studying the issue how can I or you know what is the appropriate number of nurses might be, do we go by the unions or privately drafted paper, .

What the precise optimum may be, I'm not in a position to decide. I'm fairly sure though, that the answer is definitely 'enough to keep A&E departments from having to close overnight through lack of staff'.

BigGully said:
I can only go on my own experiences which have been fantastic,

Good. Its a fantastic institution, full of amazing people. I'm glad your experiences reflect that.

I truly hope your future experiences will reflect the same.

Boys 9d · Jun 22, 2017

i can think of one farm reasonably locally where people pay the farm for the privilege of harvesting the products and transporting them home without a supermarket in sight.

Thunder Bolt · Jun 22, 2017

Boys 9d said:
i can think of one farm reasonably locally where people pay the farm for the privilege of harvesting the products and transporting them home without a supermarket in sight.

Mmmm strawberry picking.

Me and my Monkey · Jun 22, 2017

Cheeky Monkey said:
Where are the UK university and college students when you need them?

When I was a gal, living in the Garden of England, strawberry or whatever else picking was what you did to make some holiday cash.

BigGully · Jun 22, 2017

One Love said:
Please don't tell me you believe this BS!

I suppose this is what they are doing with the Police and in education as well.

Yes, yes I do, could you please tell me why Labour promises 20 000 extra police rather than 21 000, for example ?

sir albion · Jun 22, 2017

Cheeky Monkey said:
Where are the UK university and college students when you need them?

Maybe to snobby as these jobs were comfortably covered not so long ago....It really is a case of most businesses and farmers wanting to pay as little as possible for staff.

Deleted member 22389 · Jun 22, 2017

sir albion said:
Maybe to snobby as these jobs were comfortably covered not so long ago....It really is a case of most businesses and farmers wanting to pay as little as possible for staff.

Driven by the supermarkets who want the product as cheap as possible. You understand why so many farmers sell off their land for housing.

BigGully · Jun 22, 2017

bashlsdir said:
Driven by the supermarkets who want the product as cheap as possible. You understand why so many farmers sell off their land for housing.

That really isnt the point in terms of fruit pickers, the supermarkets driven by us the consumer squeeze their suppliers, I am not a fan but there you have it, but ultimately if one farmer can recruit a willing workforce to work hard and often for a rate that to a British worker is unsustainable whilst being fantastically rewarding for another set of workers from a different part of the EU then it is that anomoly and not necessarily the greed of the supermarkets.

If for sake of argument you only recruit British workers at a viable rate, then the supermarket will continue to squeeze the farmer, they always have, but only to the point that includes the higher rate of pay, so instead of being horrid and demanding supply of £1.00 a punnet, they would have to pay say £1.20 a punnet and pay a decent rate to its British workers.

The supermarkets will continue to be supplied, the farmer still no doubt will be squeezed but the British workers might be tempted to find seasonal work picking fruit at susutainable pay rate.

The key to reasonable pay is to address the skewed pay rates from some other countries citizens within the EU that currently have the absolute right to come and work here for a unsustainable rate of pay for UK worker whilst it being a rewarding rate of pay for those from elsewhere within the EU.

Farmers selling their land for housing ha always been their golden egg, nearly every farmer would if they could and that has always been the case.

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