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Massive fire in London - Grenfell Tower in Shepherds Bush



hans kraay fan club

hans kraay fan club

The voice of reason.
Helpful Moderator
Mar 16, 2005
61,273
Chandlers Ford
JC Footy Genius said:
Another one who knows all the facts and where the blame lies .. hardly worth holding an enquiry comrade. According to Boris fires in London went down 50% under his mayorality, fire deaths down year on year and response times were faster than anywhere else in the country. True or False?
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Boris' tweet on this was savaged by serving London firefighters.

Their main points:

'Fire deaths' were down, because they were changed to only include those killed by FIRE - and excluded those killed by SMOKE, which were up significantly.

The crews (on each tender) are so understaffed that on arrival at a fire, they now have to choose between a. 'getting water on it' or b. 'trying to rescue people', rather than both simultaneously, as would be the proper plan.
 








hans kraay fan club

hans kraay fan club

The voice of reason.
Helpful Moderator
Mar 16, 2005
61,273
Chandlers Ford
Goldstone1976 said:
Indeed. Thanks for the link.

Thanks to the emergency services, who demonstrate time and again the most astonishing bravery in trying to help the folk who need help.
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Big piece in whichever broadsheet I picked up in the café this morning (Telegraph, I think) on a young female firefighter, and her experiences at Grenfell. She's just out of training, had been in the job for five days, and this was her first call to a blaze - and she's faced with that. Five days in, and she finds herself on the tenth floor of Grenfell. :nono:

Sounds like her colleagues looked out for her, and to her credit, she says it hasn't put her off one bit - its made her more determined to do her job.
 


S

Sussex Nomad

Well-known member
Aug 26, 2010
18,185
EP
Very touching seeing residents clap at the firefighters when they went off duty this morning.
 












beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,292
nicko31 said:
The problem is Mr. Pie is right..
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the real problem is Mr Pie is wrong and this claim that renovations were for the benefit of the wealthy is just to ferment social division. if you look into it you'd find the cladding is about a quarter of the project, which also added new windows, heating system and imporvement to nursey and boxing clubs on site.

its pretty stupid to claim the primary purpose is for the beautification of the borough, to improve the view of the few houses/flats which could actually see it, or the other half dozen nearby towers. a nicely cladded 24 story tower block is still a 24 story tower block. this doesnt affect on the prices of homes in the posh parts.
 


clapham_gull

clapham_gull

Legacy Fan
Aug 20, 2003
25,301
beorhthelm said:
the real problem is Mr Pie is wrong and this claim that renovations were for the benefit of the wealthy is just to ferment social division. if you look into it you'd find the cladding is about a quarter of the project, which also added new windows, heating system and imporvement to nursey and boxing clubs on site.

its pretty stupid to claim the primary purpose is for the beautification of the borough, to improve the view of the few houses/flats which could actually see it, or the other half dozen nearby towers. a nicely cladded 24 story tower block is still a 24 story tower block. this doesnt affect on the prices of homes in the posh parts.
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Know the area ?
 






Westdene Seagull

Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patron
Oct 27, 2003
20,996
The arse end of Hangleton
sjamesb3466 said:
Excellent Panorama on this tonight. The way we treat people in social housing in this country is a disgrace.
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I didn't see it but if the BBC story on their website about it is accurate a certain Lib Dem ex-minister should be doing prison time !
 


drew

drew

Drew
Oct 3, 2006
23,045
Burgess Hill
El Presidente said:
When will you lefties learn that there isn't a magic money tree?
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Boring!!!

It's not about a money tree, it's about using the money generated by the economy more effectively. During the coalition as austerity was forced upon pretty much everyone, the Tories saw fit to change the inheritance tax laws to benefit those that didn't really need it. Now that alone isn't going to fund everything but it clearly demonstrates a mind set of priorities.
 


Guinness Boy

Guinness Boy

Tofu eating wokerati
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patron
Jul 23, 2003
34,109
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
beorhthelm said:
the real problem is Mr Pie is wrong and this claim that renovations were for the benefit of the wealthy is just to ferment social division. if you look into it you'd find the cladding is about a quarter of the project, which also added new windows, heating system and imporvement to nursey and boxing clubs on site.
.
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*foment

It's important to get the facts right.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 








Triggaaar

Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,162
Goldstone
Jim D said:
Was it a private member's bill perhaps?
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Could be I guess, but then it wouldn't be expected to get through.

It would be nice to just concentrate on the truth of what went wrong and why, rather than knee jerk mud slinging.
 


drew

drew

Drew
Oct 3, 2006
23,045
Burgess Hill
beorhthelm said:
the real problem is Mr Pie is wrong and this claim that renovations were for the benefit of the wealthy is just to ferment social division. if you look into it you'd find the cladding is about a quarter of the project, which also added new windows, heating system and imporvement to nursey and boxing clubs on site.

its pretty stupid to claim the primary purpose is for the beautification of the borough, to improve the view of the few houses/flats which could actually see it, or the other half dozen nearby towers. a nicely cladded 24 story tower block is still a 24 story tower block. this doesnt affect on the prices of homes in the posh parts.
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It's an element of why the cladding was put up. Don't think anyone genuinely believes it was the sole reason.
 






Bold Seagull

Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
29,787
Hove
beorhthelm said:
the real problem is Mr Pie is wrong and this claim that renovations were for the benefit of the wealthy is just to ferment social division. if you look into it you'd find the cladding is about a quarter of the project, which also added new windows, heating system and imporvement to nursey and boxing clubs on site.

its pretty stupid to claim the primary purpose is for the beautification of the borough, to improve the view of the few houses/flats which could actually see it, or the other half dozen nearby towers. a nicely cladded 24 story tower block is still a 24 story tower block. this doesnt affect on the prices of homes in the posh parts.
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It is difficult to jump to conclusions as in terms of urban design, there are fundamental principles about appearance and usability of public spaces that people then take ownership over and effectively naturally protect and look after. Leave something neglected and unusable and it will attract anti-social behaviour and a lack of engagement.

What you need to analyse I suppose is whether a project that clearly added equity value to the block, i.e. the works were very visual, and any flats coming up for sale, or rent would be enhanced by the improvements, with the benefit as you say of community facilities, windows and heating, against whether that expense should have been invested internally, effectively unseen for the improvement of the fire safety.

Fire safety of course covers a huge amount, from front doors fitted with intumescent strips and smoke seals with self closers, to sprinkler systems. In this case, until we hear more expert testimony, I'm not sure how much some of these measures would have protected the residents against the external spread of fire.

The British Automatic Fire Sprinkler Association (BAFSA) actually funded a pilot project to retro-fit a sprinkler system to an existing tower block in Sheffield to demonstrate to the industry that it was possible, at approx. £1200 per flat to fit a system, in conjunction with other measures like upgrading doors, ventilation from common areas, signage, emergency lighting etc. They wanted to show that it should not be written off as being too expensive or too difficult. So potentially you were looking at £150,000 - £200,000 to install a sprinkler system which if the overall project had a budget of £10m was just 1.5 - 2% of the total construction cost.

http://www.bafsa.org.uk/sprinkler-information/domestic-residential-sprinklers.php
 


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