Massive fire in London - Grenfell Tower in Shepherds Bush

Pavilionaire · Jun 15, 2017

I heard the female Fire Commissioner speaking about the operation. She put much emphasis on her staff, of not seeing a blaze like that before and the difficulty in weighing up the risks of allowing firefighters into the burning building. When asked what injuries the fire crews had sustained she said 9 of them had minor burns.

It surprised me that staff casualties were that light given the severity of the blaze, and it made me wonder whether tougher health and safety regs for staff did for some of those residents who might otherwise have been rescued.

worthingseagull123 · Jun 15, 2017

symyjym said:
Gross negligence? There had been warnings about an accident waiting to happen on her's and Cameron's watch.

And Blair and Brown

symyjym · Jun 15, 2017

worthingseagull123 said:
And Blair and Brown

Probably. The government has been living in fairyland for the last couple of decades, taking their eye off the ball at home and meddling in other countries affairs. This country is running headless.

Bozza · Jun 15, 2017

I just read a harrowing article about some of the communications to loved ones made by those who have undoubtedly perished. It really brought home the absolute terror those poor souls would have been in. To try and imagine being trapped 15 or 20 floors up with my children and having increasing certainty that we are all going to die is truly horrifying.

Then I open this thread and see political point scoring taking place. It beggars belief.

Two Professors · Jun 15, 2017

Frutos said:
Apparently Theresa May has visited the site but refused to meet with any of the survivors.

What a stupid post.So has Saint Adele.

Badger Boy · Jun 15, 2017

Pavilionaire said:
I heard the female Fire Commissioner speaking about the operation. She put much emphasis on her staff, of not seeing a blaze like that before and the difficulty in weighing up the risks of allowing firefighters into the burning building. When asked what injuries the fire crews had sustained she said 9 of them had minor burns.

It surprised me that staff casualties were that light given the severity of the blaze, and it made me wonder whether tougher health and safety regs for staff did for some of those residents who might otherwise have been rescued.

I'm sorry - are you suggesting that the firefighters should have thrown caution to the wind and gone steaming in, whatever the cost?

jakarta · Jun 15, 2017

The Clamp said:
I'm in building management so deal with H&S regs all day long and you are quite correct a FRA would have been carried out and a report made. Having a risk assessment is all well and good but meaningless if no follow up actions are taken. It is looking like early signs say a risk assessment had flagged up this building as a fire risk.

I'm afraid I completely agree with this, a certain South Eastern University had me annually inspect & test their chemical extraction systems (mostly fume cupboards) back in the 1990's. Some of the systems consistently failed their performance criteria and yet nothing was done. In retrospect I really should have got the HSE involved but when people say they will sort things out (and they are your Clients) it is not such a simple situation. That area of the site has now shut down I'm glad to say.

Two Professors · Jun 15, 2017

Pavilionaire said:
I heard the female Fire Commissioner speaking about the operation. She put much emphasis on her staff, of not seeing a blaze like that before and the difficulty in weighing up the risks of allowing firefighters into the burning building. When asked what injuries the fire crews had sustained she said 9 of them had minor burns.

It surprised me that staff casualties were that light given the severity of the blaze, and it made me wonder whether tougher health and safety regs for staff did for some of those residents who might otherwise have been rescued.

Fire crews have protective clothing and are constantly trained,otherwise their casualties would mean they couldn't do their job.Very brave,dedicated people,who only deserve praise,not sarcasm.

Eeyore · Jun 15, 2017

Bozza said:
I just read a harrowing article about some of the communications to loved ones made by those who have undoubtedly perished. It really brought home the absolute terror those poor souls would have been in. To try and imagine being trapped 15 or 20 floors up with my children and having increasing certainty that we are all going to die is truly horrifying.

Then I open this thread and see political point scoring taking place. It beggars belief.

Yes. It's quite ugly. Best people offer their sympathies and let any investigation take its course. There is to be a public inquiry. I rather hope one that is not protracted and causes more grief than resolve.

clarkey · Jun 15, 2017

Bozza said:
I just read a harrowing article about some of the communications to loved ones made by those who have undoubtedly perished. It really brought home the absolute terror those poor souls would have been in. To try and imagine being trapped 15 or 20 floors up with my children and having increasing certainty that we are all going to die is truly horrifying.

Then I open this thread and see political point scoring taking place. It beggars belief.

MP David Lammy saying his friend on the 20th floor, now feared dead, was on Facebook at 3:30am asking for help. 2 and a half hours trapped, knowing the blaze is making its way towards you. Horrendous.

Tom Hark Preston Park · Jun 15, 2017

Bozza said:
I just read a harrowing article about some of the communications to loved ones made by those who have undoubtedly perished. It really brought home the absolute terror those poor souls would have been in. To try and imagine being trapped 15 or 20 floors up with my children and having increasing certainty that we are all going to die is truly horrifying.

Then I open this thread and see political point scoring taking place. It beggars belief.

It really doesn't. As a very many of the news broadcasts have stated, there's a deep sadness but an underlying anger also. IMHO NSC is currently reflecting exactly the same.

Tyrone Biggums · Jun 15, 2017

In this day and age I can't work out why someone can't attempt to invent something that people could at least try to jump into or on when faced with fires/disasters for buildings of height.

Firemen used to catch people using Browder nets and while I realise building heights were vastly different then technology has advanced dramatically to the point where these days anything could be possible with man engineering abilities.

Pavilionaire · Jun 15, 2017

Two Professors said:
Fire crews have protective clothing and are constantly trained,otherwise their casualties would mean they couldn't do their job.Very brave,dedicated people,who only deserve praise,not sarcasm.

Sarcasm? What are you talking about? The Commissioner said she'd seen nothing like that in 29 years so how can you train for it?

Leekbrookgull · Jun 15, 2017

Tyrone Biggums said:
In this day and age I can't work out why someone can't attempt to invent something that people could at least try to jump into or on when faced with fires/disasters for buildings of height.

Firemen used to catch people using Browder nets and while I realise building heights were vastly different then technology has advanced dramatically to the point where these days anything could be possible with man engineering abilities.

I can recall that like holding a big sheet out.

Leekbrookgull · Jun 15, 2017

Since1982 said:
It occurred to me today that I wouldn't work in an office building without a fire alarm system that was tested weekly and a known and rehearsed evacuation procedure - yet it appears those obligations don't apply in a residential tower block where there is a much greater risk of a fire.

For ten years i worked at a very well known Theme park in Staffordshire and every year YOU HAD to attend a fire lecture,fire drills were regularly carried out along with alcohol and drug testing. Should anyone wedge open a fire it was a serious discipline offence and yet there were still genuine no fault fires but FIRE was treated with the RESPECT it deserves. Remember the saying 'Fire a good servant but a bad Master.

soistes · Jun 15, 2017

Tom Hark said:
It really doesn't. As a very many of the news broadcasts have stated, there's a deep sadness but an underlying anger also. IMHO NSC is currently reflecting exactly the same.

Exactly. [MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION] can call it political point-scoring if he likes, but it's clear already from much of the informed local comment that's emerging that there has been a long history of cavalier disregard of the safety concerns of the tenants in this and other council-owned blocks, in one of the poorest wards in the country which just happens to be part of one of the richest Boroughs in the country. It's inexcusable. The gradual erosion over time of building standards under a political pressure for 'deregulation' at national level is not irrelevant to this discussion either. Political comment is both appropriate and inevitable in this context it seems to me. It in no way negates the horror of the event or the suffering of the individuals; indeed it is precisely such horror and suffering which often ignites political responses and movements.

It's a very very sad irony, given the number of deaths that are likely to occur in this catastrophe by the time the truth is known, and given the location and likely social composition of the tower block, that if the fire had occurred a week earlier, the Labour party might well not have won the Kensington constituency by the narrowest of margins (20 votes)

Moving from politics to architecture (hope that's ok with the NSC powers that be), it's also been known for decades that these 60s and 70s residential tower blocks with single stairwells are not safe. They should not be being tarted up cosmetically with cladding, which early reports suggest may have contributed to the spread of the fire externally - it's no use having internal fire-blocks designed to contain fire to individual flats if the fire is spreading across the outside of the building, exploding the windows and entering the flats from the outside. In my view these blocks should be demolished and replaced with low rise housing - there should be a height limit for residential buildings which doesn't exceed the reach of fire ladders (10 storeys or so?)

Napper · Jun 15, 2017

Bozza said:
I just read a harrowing article about some of the communications to loved ones made by those who have undoubtedly perished. It really brought home the absolute terror those poor souls would have been in. To try and imagine being trapped 15 or 20 floors up with my children and having increasing certainty that we are all going to die is truly horrifying.

Then I open this thread and see political point scoring taking place. It beggars belief.

do you have a link to that article.

Would like to read that.

Kinky Gerbil · Jun 15, 2017

The scummy mail have named the ID of the person whose flat the fire started in.

Ernest · Jun 15, 2017

Tom Hark said:
It really doesn't. As a very many of the news broadcasts have stated, there's a deep sadness but an underlying anger also. IMHO NSC is currently reflecting exactly the same.

I think what's coming out on the news now is anger and people want answers

Papa Lazarou · Jun 15, 2017

Kinky Gerbils said:
The scummy mail have named the ID of the person whose flat the fire started in.

A work colleague was reading it online earlier. From what she told me the person's fridge caught fire, so they (reportedly) packed a suitcase, knocked on their neighbours door to tell them to leave, and THEN called the emergency services.

Quite a lot of things odd there.

Clearly, it's probably lies, as it's in the Mail.

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