Green Party

BrightonCottager · Jun 9, 2017

There was a lot of tactical voting all over the UK. I canvassed Labour and Tory 'core' voters and members who were going to vote for Caroline Lucas (and took and displayed posters) either to ensure an anti-Tory person won, because she's a good constituency MP , a good Parliamentarian or because of Brexit. I also know Green voters in Kemptown and Hove who voted Labour for tactical reasons. So arguably the results in our 'city' and elsewhere don't realistically represent what people really want to vote, which is why we sho I ld have PR.

Guy Fawkes · Jun 10, 2017

BrightonCottager said:
There was a lot of tactical voting all over the UK. I canvassed Labour and Tory 'core' voters and members who were going to vote for Caroline Lucas (and took and displayed posters) either to ensure an anti-Tory person won, because she's a good constituency MP , a good Parliamentarian or because of Brexit. I also know Green voters in Kemptown and Hove who voted Labour for tactical reasons. So arguably the results in our 'city' and elsewhere don't realistically represent what people really want to vote, which is why we sho I ld have PR.

How do you get local MP's who campaign on local issues into power under PR?

Also under PR, the MP's would be appointed by the party as they fill their quota, (based on share of the vote) - so individuals will end up with an MP that doesn't have a constituency to represent and therefore there would be no real local representation or accountability and no way of voting them out.

Does that really sound like a better system?

heathgate · Jun 10, 2017

amexer said:
I see they only got 500,000 votes. Caroline Lucas very high profile and untouchable in Brighton.. However over last ten years as a Party seem to have made no progress

Niche modus operandi..... nobody in this country will seriously consider them as political contenders.... it's a protest/campaign movement, not Westminster fodder.

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heathgate · Jun 10, 2017

Guy Fawkes said:
Last Wednesday renewable sources generated over 50% of our energy, and more and more renewable generation sites are being built across the country, so is it really a big issue that is not being tackled already?

... and in actuality, it was 72%... so I think it is being tackled.

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Seagull73 · Jun 10, 2017

BrianWade4 said:
Serious question as don't live in Brighton...
Has the city changed in any way due to having a Green MP?
Presumably all noticeable stuff - roads, parks, schools, new buildings, etc - for good or bad - is the responsibility of the Local Council?
In other words, does have a Green Party MP make any difference?

I don't live in Brighton anymore either, but I do work there some days of the week. All I can say is that I am glad I don't live there. It has become a student city - feeling like every single piece of brownfield space being used to create student accommodation. It's congested, it's still dirty - Lewes Road is still a shithole, London Road is still a shithole, the main shopping centre is still pretty much the white elephant everyone said it would be, largely because Western Road - is still a shithole.
There a few decent pubs, and that's about it. Now I know I'm going to get shot down by saying 'oh, these are all issues for the council blah, blah' - but if Caroline Lucas was so focused on campaigning for local issues, apparently why gets elected in Brighton, why the hell does the city still generally look and feel like shithole?

Weststander · Jun 10, 2017

Guy Fawkes said:
How do you get local MP's who campaign on local issues into power under PR?

Also under PR, the MP's would be appointed by the party as they fill their quota, (based on share of the vote) - so individuals will end up with an MP that doesn't have a constituency to represent and therefore there would be no real local representation or accountability and no way of voting them out.

Does that really sound like a better system?

Very good point. Under true PR (there are many systems), MP's for areas could very well include extreme characters within a party, left or right, or those who never work for their constituents, or their voting in Parliament never takes account of a groundswell of opinion of a key issue in that area. They keep their jobs because party hierarchies like them.

But they cannot be thrown out by their constituents, as there isn't a means of doing this.

BrightonCottager · Jun 10, 2017

Guy Fawkes said:
How do you get local MP's who campaign on local issues into power under PR?

Also under PR, the MP's would be appointed by the party as they fill their quota, (based on share of the vote) - so individuals will end up with an MP that doesn't have a constituency to represent and therefore there would be no real local representation or accountability and no way of voting them out.

Does that really sound like a better system?

Depends which PR system that's chosen but the best have a local MP plus those from a party list so you get a blend of both without the loss of a local angle. Of course, it would also mean there would have been 23 UKIP MPs in the 2015 Parliament as well as 11 Green.

Weststander · Jun 10, 2017

BrightonCottager said:
Depends which PR system that's chosen but the best have a local MP plus those from a party list so you get a blend of both without the loss of a local angle. Of course, it would also mean there would have been 23 UKIP MPs in the 2015 Parliament as well as 11 Green.

True, but those systems can allow tactical voting against a single party, by the voters of two parties ganging together to completely exclude the chances of the third party's candidates being elected. A continuation of tactical voting. A political scientist from Sussex Uni on the radio yesterday said that these systems are NOT PR.

The Additional Member System used in Germany/Wales/Scotland, does gives true PR. The one big price paid is that many of the MP's elected come from closed lists .... the public never vote on those particular MP's.

All is explained on the excellent website https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/voting-systems/types-of-voting-system/ . They are biased, having fought first past the post for decades.

Surf's Up · Jun 10, 2017

Seagull73 said:
I don't live in Brighton anymore either, but I do work there some days of the week. All I can say is that I am glad I don't live there. It has become a student city - feeling like every single piece of brownfield space being used to create student accommodation. It's congested, it's still dirty - Lewes Road is still a shithole, London Road is still a shithole, the main shopping centre is still pretty much the white elephant everyone said it would be, largely because Western Road - is still a shithole.
There a few decent pubs, and that's about it. Now I know I'm going to get shot down by saying 'oh, these are all issues for the council blah, blah' - but if Caroline Lucas was so focused on campaigning for local issues, apparently why gets elected in Brighton, why the hell does the city still generally look and feel like shithole?

.....and you could have added, if you wanted to, that the Greens had control of the local council for four (?) years too

Wrong-Direction · Jun 10, 2017

Seagull73 said:
I don't live in Brighton anymore either, but I do work there some days of the week. All I can say is that I am glad I don't live there. It has become a student city - feeling like every single piece of brownfield space being used to create student accommodation. It's congested, it's still dirty - Lewes Road is still a shithole, London Road is still a shithole, the main shopping centre is still pretty much the white elephant everyone said it would be, largely because Western Road - is still a shithole.
There a few decent pubs, and that's about it. Now I know I'm going to get shot down by saying 'oh, these are all issues for the council blah, blah' - but if Caroline Lucas was so focused on campaigning for local issues, apparently why gets elected in Brighton, why the hell does the city still generally look and feel like shithole?

This is complete and utter bollocks!!!

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herecomesaregular · Jun 10, 2017

Wrong-Direction said:
This is complete and utter bollocks!!! &#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;

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Seconded. Quite happy, despite it's obvious problems, to live in Brighton for past 20 years. Spent overnight in Basingstoke now .. *shudder*....

Wrong-Direction · Jun 10, 2017

herecomesaregular said:
Seconded. Quite happy, despite it's obvious problems, to live in Brighton for past 20 years. Spent overnight in Basingstoke now .. *shudder*....

Every time I travel around the country I always smile when the train rolls back into brighton

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BadFish · Jun 10, 2017

Wrong-Direction said:
Every time I travel around the country I always smile when the train rolls back into brighton

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I am visiting next week and I have been feeling like I can't wait to see the old place again. First time I have been back to Brighton in the summer for about 15 years.

After reading the OP I think maybe I won't bother, it sounds like a right shithole.

Wrong-Direction · Jun 10, 2017

BadFish said:
I am visiting next week and I have been feeling like I can't wait to see the old place again. First time I have been back to Brighton in the summer for about 15 years.

After reading the OP I think maybe I won't bother, it sounds like a right shithole.

Honestly take no notice, the sun is shining and I'm looking forward to a pub crawl up hannover down to the beach and into town later, there's no place better in the summer!

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Guy Fawkes · Jun 10, 2017

heathgate said:
... and in actuality, it was 72%... so I think it is being tackled.

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Only if you count Nuclear in with that figure otherwise it was 50.7%

Renewable sources of energy have generated more electricity than coal and gas in Great Britain for the first time.
National Grid reported that, on Wednesday lunchtime, power from wind, solar, hydro and wood pellet burning supplied 50.7% of UK energy.

Add in nuclear, and by 2pm low carbon sources were producing 72.1% of electricity in Great Britain.

Wednesday lunchtime was perfect for renewables being both sunny and windy. Records for wind power are being set across Northern Europe.

The National Grid, the body that owns and manages the power supply around the UK, said in a tweet: "For the first time ever this lunchtime wind, nuclear and solar were all generating more than both gas and coal combined."

On Tuesday, a tenth of the UK's power was coming from offshore wind farms - a newcomer on the energy scene whose costs have plummeted far faster than expected.

So much power was being generated by wind turbines, in fact, that prices fell to a tenth of their normal level.

Environmentalists will salute this new record as a milestone towards the low carbon economy.

Critics of renewable energy sources will point to the disruption renewables cause to the established energy system.

At the time of Wednesday's record, 1% of demand was met by storage; this will have to increase hugely as Great Britain moves towards a low-carbon electricity system.

And that figure includes the burning of wood pellets, a lot of which are imported from places like the USA (so what about the carbon emissions and also the emissions from transporting them to the UK, is it really clean energy?)

https://www.carbonbrief.org/uk-now-burning-33-of-worlds-wood-pellet-imports

It also raises the issue of sustainability of using wood pellets and the risk is that deforestation occurs to meet demand, something that will rapidly increase as more and more countries move away from coal and oil and look for other reliable means to use to supply power and to produce power from it as traditional means are replaced / phased out (sources that arn't reliant on weather conditions)

BadFish · Jun 10, 2017

Wrong-Direction said:
Honestly take no notice, the sun is shining and I'm looking forward to a pub crawl up hannover down to the beach and into town later, there's no place better in the summer!

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Don't worry, I was being factitious. I intend to enjoy my time back in town and enjoy everything it has to offer.

Used to love the pubs round Southover Street. Is The Geese still there?

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Wrong-Direction · Jun 10, 2017

BadFish said:
Don't worry, I was being factitious. I intend to enjoy my time back in town and enjoy everything it has to offer.

Used to love the pubs round Southover Street. Is The Geese still there?

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Yeah, there's so many decent little pubs up there I've only recently discovered! The setting sun has a great view from the beer garden [emoji482]

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BrianWade4 · Jun 10, 2017

Seagull73 said:
I don't live in Brighton anymore either, but I do work there some days of the week. All I can say is that I am glad I don't live there. It has become a student city - feeling like every single piece of brownfield space being used to create student accommodation. It's congested, it's still dirty - Lewes Road is still a shithole, London Road is still a shithole, the main shopping centre is still pretty much the white elephant everyone said it would be, largely because Western Road - is still a shithole.
There a few decent pubs, and that's about it. Now I know I'm going to get shot down by saying 'oh, these are all issues for the council blah, blah' - but if Caroline Lucas was so focused on campaigning for local issues, apparently why gets elected in Brighton, why the hell does the city still generally look and feel like shithole?

Interesting
That's why I posted
Was wondering the same thing

Pretty pink fairy · Jun 10, 2017

Wrong-Direction said:
Yeah, there's so many decent little pubs up there I've only recently discovered! The setting sun has a great view from the beer garden [emoji482]

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Yeah ,Hanover and Queens park are such hip and happening places, do you drink in the Greys

regards
DR

Pretty pink fairy · Jun 10, 2017

Seagull73 said:
I don't live in Brighton anymore either, but I do work there some days of the week. All I can say is that I am glad I don't live there. It has become a student city - feeling like every single piece of brownfield space being used to create student accommodation. It's congested, it's still dirty - Lewes Road is still a shithole, London Road is still a shithole, the main shopping centre is still pretty much the white elephant everyone said it would be, largely because Western Road - is still a shithole.
There a few decent pubs, and that's about it. Now I know I'm going to get shot down by saying 'oh, these are all issues for the council blah, blah' - but if Caroline Lucas was so focused on campaigning for local issues, apparently why gets elected in Brighton, why the hell does the city still generally look and feel like shithole?

spot on, as i said the Greens living in a fantasy Bubble in Brighton
regards
DR

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