Breaking news: Reports of explosion in Manchester

Official Old Man · May 23, 2017

Thoughts with the families. My Daughter goes to these concerts and stays overnight in hotels. To think this could have been her.

FA Cup Saturday will now have a further 'ring of steel' 500 mts from the gates I've no doubt.

Bwian · May 23, 2017

Psychobilly freakout said:
Your signature could not be more apt "Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege"

So what, in your mind, is stupid?

The fact that there appears to be no eradication of warped ideologies or that I voiced an opinion that differs from yours?

northernseagull · May 23, 2017

hans kraay fan club said:
Quite.

Difficult to accept but this hangs over all of us, every time we go to a game, or pass through a busy station, wherever.

And yet incredibly, just days ago, you had people on this very forum whining about the security measures around the gathering of 100,000 people on our sea-front.

"Bag searches, Barber? WTF?"

So true.

BigGully · May 23, 2017

Yoda said:
But just the news channels reading out a statement from the group will not 'brainwash' influential people into joining their cause. Site's and social media pages that aid their cause and recruitment need targeting.

I totally agree, I thought your comment was on the offensive trolling of the event.

Kalimantan Gull · May 23, 2017

BevBHA said:
RIP the victims, thoughts with their families. Terrible news to wake up to.

We'll fly flags at half mast, lay flowers, change profile pictures and tweet #PrayforManchester and then wait for the next attack. There are around 3000 'dangerous' people in our country and we do nothing. We are a shambles and we are walking into civil war. THIS IS SCARY SOMEONE DO SOMETHING

Yes, you are so so right. We've been caught up in this stupid war for so long now, we bomb them in revenge for our dead children and they bomb us in revenge for their dead children and the same cycle keeps going on and on for ever and no-one can ever be sure who actually started it. And yet the response to something like this will be continued calls for revenge and heightened anger towards otherwise ordinary people which will create more dangerous fundamentalists as sure as night follows day, and the cycle continues and continues forever. And we'll feel good when we kill some of them and chuck loads in jail, and keep feeling bad when the inevitable lone-wolf gets through and kills some of us. And they feel just the same. But behind it all are are parents of every colour and creed in cities throughout this planet crying for their dead children.

And all the time our world gets further divided along the lines of THEM and US, labels which people didn't choose but just got foisted on them at birth.

God I'm so angry about this, angry that so many innocents died in Manchester for nothing, and angry at the inevitable, futile, misguided calls to fascism and war that follow. I understand, I understand. I just wish this passion could be used for something to actually stop this slide into civil war. There is an answer, pacifism, peace, understanding, absorbing the blows and working for a peace, but the calls for that get lost amidst the furore to punch them back and those that call for pacifism or reach out across the aisles get ridiculed and shunned. We are a species that wants to fight. The principle of an eye for an eye exists everywhere. And so the cycle will continue.

Bozza · May 23, 2017

hans kraay fan club said:
Quite.

Difficult to accept but this hangs over all of us, every time we go to a game, or pass through a busy station, wherever.

And yet incredibly, just days ago, you had people on this very forum whining about the security measures around the gathering of 100,000 people on our sea-front.

"Bag searches, Barber? WTF?"

We just have to keep on keeping on.

The evil ****ers want us to stop, to change our behaviour, to cower in our homes in fear of being caught up in something like this. We won't, we can't.

Papa Lazarou · May 23, 2017

hans kraay fan club said:
Quite.

Difficult to accept but this hangs over all of us, every time we go to a game, or pass through a busy station, wherever.

And yet incredibly, just days ago, you had people on this very forum whining about the security measures around the gathering of 100,000 people on our sea-front.

"Bag searches, Barber? WTF?"

Yep, if you analyse a home game in terms of predictable large gatherings of people there are many 'opportunities'...

On a personal level, this atrocity hit me hard - I have an 11 year old daughter, who is a fan of Ms Grande, and has in the past listened to her music (I think she's more in Taylor Swift & Ed Sheeran now). I can easily imagine her being at such a concert (with me with her to look after her)... I had to stop reading about it on the train this morning, as I was almost in tears reading.

Psychobilly freakout · May 23, 2017

Bwian said:
So what, in your mind, is stupid?

The fact that there appears to be no eradication of warped ideologies or that I voiced an opinion that differs from yours?

I may actually agree with you, I think the timing is a little off fella.

Point scoring or I told you so, its not the right time...

raise above that fella. Have a good day.

BBassic · May 23, 2017

Bwian said:
So what, in your mind, is stupid?

The fact that there appears to be no eradication of warped ideologies or that I voiced an opinion that differs from yours?

You won't ever eradicate those ideologies. Certainly not in our lifetime. I think Psychobilly was probably referring to the idea that the Muslim Council of Britain are just sitting back, twiddling their thumbs and not doing everything in their power to ensure their youth aren't radicalised.

hans kraay fan club · May 23, 2017

Papa Lazarou said:
On a personal level, this atrocity hit me hard - I have an 11 year old daughter, who is a fan of Ms Grande, and has in the past listened to her music (I think she's more in Taylor Swift & Ed Sheeran now). I can easily imagine her being at such a concert (with me with her to look after her)... I had to stop reading about it on the train this morning, as I was almost in tears reading.

Impossible not to make the personal connections. My own 17 year old niece was at the Ariane Grande concert in Dublin on Saturday night. The kids caught up last night are her Mancunian sisters - all the "have you seen my friend, missing since the explosion", images I saw retweeted this morning, look exactly like her and her friends.

soistes · May 23, 2017

Bozza said:
The unfortunate fact is there is precious little we can do about these kind of attacks, is there?

Our security services are seemingly able to work small miracles in regularly snuffing out attacks from groups and cells that their intelligence unearths, but lone wolf attacks are all but impossible to know about until it's too late.

We can beef up security on entrance to mass attendance venues, such as we have seen at the Amex, but that merely moves the point where an attack may occur further out.

That this attack happened at the end of the concert just outside the main arena may indicate that this attack was carried out by someone approaching the venue having not gone to the concert itself.

If we can stop bad actors getting into football stadiums, we can do little to stop them targeting crowds as they leave stadiums in city centres or on public transport.

So terribly sad

I tend to agree with this - at whichever point you tighten up security for mass events, the risk just shifts to another point outside the relevant cordon.

The only strategy which stands a chance it seems to me, is a combination of a) intelligence-led security activity in communities in which these kinds of terrorists are likely to be found, to identify activity which is likely to indicate preparation for such an attack, or individual behaviour which is likely to indicate propensity to conduct such an attack; b) longer-term, lower key work to try and reduce the likelihood of people being drawn to these kinds of groups in the first instance.

My understanding is that this is exactly what is going on, and we don't know, for obvious reasons, how many other potential attacks have thereby been prevented.

Despite the natural tendency for people to react angrily to this tragedy and call for a draconian clamp-down on muslims (or whoever) in general, I think this is more likely simply to act as a recruiting ground for an even larger flood of bitter young jihadis.

For what it's worth, I'm not an apologist for Islam or its associated ideologies, and generally I feel that the less religion there is around in the world, the better. But we have to start from the position we're in.

Triggaaar · May 23, 2017

Bwian said:
So what, in your mind, is stupid?

The words.

The Muslim council have condemned the attack, what the **** do you want them to do? They didn't have to come out with a statement so quickly. Their statement helps the average UK Muslim understand that this attack is not what their religion supports. You say 'but next week it will be back to normal' - actually, my family's life continues as normal today (something not true for the victims and their families of course, but we're talking about the Muslim council here).

BUTTERBALL · May 23, 2017

More needs to be done to close down the social media accounts of the individuals and groups who whip up hatred and brainwashing that leads to things like this.

It's too easy for the big social media networks to deny it's their problem, these messages are being spread on their platforms. Facebook spend a tiny fraction of their revenue on policing their network.

Bozza · May 23, 2017

Papa Lazarou said:
On a personal level, this atrocity hit me hard - I have an 11 year old daughter, who is a fan of Ms Grande, and has in the past listened to her music (I think she's more in Taylor Swift & Ed Sheeran now). I can easily imagine her being at such a concert (with me with her to look after her)... I had to stop reading about it on the train this morning, as I was almost in tears reading.

Indeed. It wasn't long ago that I took my daughter to see Justin Bieber at Birmingham Arena (or whatever it's called now). Thousands of young people close to delirium for a couple of hours, having a night they'll remember for the rest of their lives. I jokingly described it as a dreadful experience which, frankly, as a middle-aged man it sort of was. That the ear-splitting screams of delight I heard would have been replicated last night in sheer terror is a chilling thought. Did we duck out slightly early to "beat the crowd"? I can't remember now, to be honest. Horrible.

Triggaaar · May 23, 2017

soistes said:
The only strategy which stands a chance it seems to me, is a combination of a) intelligence-led security activity in communities in which these kinds of terrorists are likely to be found, to identify activity which is likely to indicate preparation for such an attack, or individual behaviour which is likely to indicate propensity to conduct such an attack; b) longer-term, lower key work to try and reduce the likelihood of people being drawn to these kinds of groups in the first instance.

As part of your b) I think we should do more to stop the preaching of hate.

jameswestport · May 23, 2017

Just seeing this now. Absolutely shocked! RIP.

No place in the world for this sort of shit.

soistes · May 23, 2017

Triggaaar said:
As part of your b) I think we should do more to stop the preaching of hate.

Agree

happypig · May 23, 2017

Bozza said:
We just have to keep on keeping on.

The evil ****ers want us to stop, to change our behaviour, to cower in our homes in fear of being caught up in something like this. We won't, we can't.

I don't think they do want us cowed and hiding, they want us out beating up innocent Muslims & setting fire to mosques; they want to incite us, both individually and societally, to oppression and violence towards muslims, thus driving more muslims towards radicalism. They are trying to start a holy war, a jihad.
And, as can be seen on here, some people are already keen to point the finger and demand action.
But the way we deal with them (because we cannot really defeat them) is to carry on as a normal, multi-cultural society; accept the Muslim council's condemnation for what it is, not ridicule it for hypocrisy.

Lush · May 23, 2017

cheshunt seagull said:
A 13th birthday treat; just the sort of show I took my daughter to when she was that age. Utter evil and very precisely targetted.

Good to hear that she was OK.

j

And just the sort of show where there would have been hundreds of parents waiting in the foyer to collect their kids who'd been given their first taste of independence. Many would have had bags and no searching at this stage of the event (think
Of the Amex after the match has ended.) how on earth can you security check at this stage? Dreadful calculating act. RIP.

Brighton Mod · May 23, 2017

BUTTERBALL said:
More needs to be done to close down the social media accounts of the individuals and groups who whip up hatred and brainwashing that leads to things like this.

It's too easy for the big social media networks to deny it's their problem, these messages are being spread on their platforms. Facebook spend a tiny fraction of their revenue on policing their network.

You're so right, if such propoganda and opinions were promoted at a hired venue, live, or in a leaflet or magazine form then these facilities would be shut down. Google etc are making huge sums of money and should now start taking more responsibility, the politicians are letting them off the hook as this is coming from a medium that they don't fully understand.

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