Trump

The_Viper said:

This is a good post from elsewhere.


This an extraordinarily complex situation, and as such will be misrepresented and simplified by the media.
The Charlottesville clash was precipitated by the Charlottesville City Council changing the name of Robert E Lee Park to Emancipation Park and taking down the Robert E Lee statue.
The Charlottesville City Council is fully in their right to do this, and conversely individuals who disagree with the decision are fully in their right to protest this decision.
The legacy of the Confederacy is very complicated. In one sense the Confederacy was based on defense of the racist institution of slavery, and in another sense based on state's rights.
Robert E Lee believed at the outset that secession from the Union to defend slavery was not a good idea, but he found himself choosing to take the side of Virginia in the impending war with the United States.
For some, Robert E Lee represents the racist subjugation of African Americans, for others he represents the defense of Southern independence from the federal government.
There's no doubt that there were white nationalists who came to protest the removal of the statue. Their views were on display in the form of racist signs and symbols in today's clash. However, there is no doubt some who protest the removal of the statue, who don't hold racist views but see the Robert E Lee statue as a symbol of Virginia and the South and the effort to cleanse the South of Confederate symbols as a politically-correct campaign to white-wash history.
As for the counter-protesters, these too likely had a mixture of groups and intentions. For some, they came to legitimately protest what they see as a racist campaign to defend the Confederacy. However there is no doubt that the anarchist/Marxist group Antifa came not to protest, but to forcefully/violently prevent the legal assembly of statue removal protesters.
The pro-Robert E Lee statue protesters obviously anticipated Antifa blocking them so they brought shields and weapons to defend/attack and allow them to protest the statue removal. Antifa obviously anticipated the clash as they too brought shields and weapons. A recipe for disaster and thus the clash - a well anticipated and orchestrated event.
Lost in the clash, are the peaceful individuals on both sides who legitimately wanted to practice their freedom of speech and assembly to protest and counter-protest.
These complexities will likely be washed over and this will simply become a result of the Trump presidency. As the media already showing they are blaming Breitbart and Steve Bannon. This completely ignores the relatively recent phenomenon of Confederacy legacy removal.
No doubt, if Hillary Clinton was president we would see the same sort of clash play out again and again.
What's the solution? I don't know. But I feel it's important to take an honest overview of all sides in this complex situation.

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CHAPPERS said:

Where is that post from?

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CHAPPERS said:

Where is that post from?

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Change at Barnham said:

I quite liked hearing Trump referred to as '45' (45th President) by the deputy mayor of Charlottesville in a Radio 4 interview.
He never once mentioned his name. Using the term 45 nicely took away any respect for his position.

I'm looking forward to watching 'Trump' the movie. I reckon we're only about 30 minutes into the story so far.

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CHAPPERS said:

Where is that post from?

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Stat Brother said:

I doubt cinema will be a high priority for those that are left.

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The_Viper said:

It was on some clickbait this morning when I woke up on Twitter and found it pretty neutral. Looks like it came from The Donald on reddit though, so you know what that means, it's now automatically ignored.

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beorhthelm said:

this episode is highlighting exactly what all that nonsense was last week was all about - distraction from domestic issues. now he'll be forced back to domestic agendas and wont have time to posture on fire and fury etc while the grown ups over that part of the world take over.

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The_Viper said:

This is a good post from elsewhere.


This an extraordinarily complex situation, and as such will be misrepresented and simplified by the media.
The Charlottesville clash was precipitated by the Charlottesville City Council changing the name of Robert E Lee Park to Emancipation Park and taking down the Robert E Lee statue.
The Charlottesville City Council is fully in their right to do this, and conversely individuals who disagree with the decision are fully in their right to protest this decision.
The legacy of the Confederacy is very complicated. In one sense the Confederacy was based on defense of the racist institution of slavery, and in another sense based on state's rights.
Robert E Lee believed at the outset that secession from the Union to defend slavery was not a good idea, but he found himself choosing to take the side of Virginia in the impending war with the United States.
For some, Robert E Lee represents the racist subjugation of African Americans, for others he represents the defense of Southern independence from the federal government.
There's no doubt that there were white nationalists who came to protest the removal of the statue. Their views were on display in the form of racist signs and symbols in today's clash. However, there is no doubt some who protest the removal of the statue, who don't hold racist views but see the Robert E Lee statue as a symbol of Virginia and the South and the effort to cleanse the South of Confederate symbols as a politically-correct campaign to white-wash history.
As for the counter-protesters, these too likely had a mixture of groups and intentions. For some, they came to legitimately protest what they see as a racist campaign to defend the Confederacy. However there is no doubt that the anarchist/Marxist group Antifa came not to protest, but to forcefully/violently prevent the legal assembly of statue removal protesters.
The pro-Robert E Lee statue protesters obviously anticipated Antifa blocking them so they brought shields and weapons to defend/attack and allow them to protest the statue removal. Antifa obviously anticipated the clash as they too brought shields and weapons. A recipe for disaster and thus the clash - a well anticipated and orchestrated event.
Lost in the clash, are the peaceful individuals on both sides who legitimately wanted to practice their freedom of speech and assembly to protest and counter-protest.
These complexities will likely be washed over and this will simply become a result of the Trump presidency. As the media already showing they are blaming Breitbart and Steve Bannon. This completely ignores the relatively recent phenomenon of Confederacy legacy removal.
No doubt, if Hillary Clinton was president we would see the same sort of clash play out again and again.
What's the solution? I don't know. But I feel it's important to take an honest overview of all sides in this complex situation.

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Stat Brother said:

As said John Oliver nails both topicals on this weeks 'Last Week Tonight'.

If you can't see it legally, or otherwise, it'll be on Youtube in a few days.

I don't know how long this will last before being bloked:-

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beorhthelm said:

you would ignore something because were it comes from rather than the content? the comment seems fair enough, there was more to the Civil War than slavery.

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daveybgtt said:

I can't watch John Oliver videos, his audience are insufferable. *whoops and hollers like a gibbon*

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carlzeiss said:

[yt]Fy758yaD4UI[/YT]

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