Trump

The_Viper · May 15, 2018

Gritt23 said:
You can stick your fingers in your ears and go la-la-la in a very loud voice if you want

This is why Trump got elected and Brexit got through. People have been too keen to think that those silly conservatives/right leaning/working class/people who disagree with me, they'll do as they're told when it comes to the crunch as usual. Sure as shit we hit a breaking point and people had enough. The response? Doubling down on the DO AS YOUR TOLD mentality but turning it nastier and adding the icing of major accusations to those who disagree like racist, sexist etc.

Brighton Mod · May 15, 2018

How long have talks been going on and what has the outcome been? Nothing. Recent issues need to be seen on abroader spectrum, I've seen no mention of Iran on this thread, neither Syria or Yemen, these are all interconnected and choreographed by Iran, I suspect. Isreal and the Gaza strip is small fry in what is going on and as for the Muellahs and the leaders of the different factions who send their own young men to certain death, they have no shame.
If you have ever negotiated with an Arab, you will know they adopt a position and don't move.

symyjym · May 15, 2018

Westdene Seagull said:
They didn't attack the North thanks to thousands of UN peacekeepers being in place over the years - even now there are hundreds.

So you think it's acceptable for them to just be displaced and get on with their lives ? Why should they be displaced through no fault of their own ? Why should they live under the tyrannical policies of Israel ? Why shouldn't they get their lands back ? Would you be accepting if someone just rocked up at your front door and said "Tough shit pal, move, we taking this place over" ?

Lifes not fair, but at least they had somewhere to go, build a new life and invest in themselves, and not the destruction of Israel. If the Jews didn't have Israel they would have no land at all whereas Islam spans continents with its historical bloody conquests. Do you believe that the Jews are not entitled to have a homeland?

Westdene Seagull · May 15, 2018

symyjym said:
Do you believe that the Jews are not entitled to have a homeland?

Not if it means kicking out people from their homes that were perfectly entitled to be there and then setting up an apartheid state for those that manage to remain.

seagulls4ever · May 15, 2018

symyjym said:
Lifes not fair, but at least they had somewhere to go, build a new life and invest in themselves, and not the destruction of Israel. If the Jews didn't have Israel they would have no land at all whereas Islam spans continents with its historical bloody conquests. Do you believe that the Jews are not entitled to have a homeland?

So are you just going to ignore my post where I pointed out that you got your facts completely incorrect?

symyjym · May 15, 2018

seagulls4ever said:
So are you just going to ignore my post where I pointed out that you got your facts completely incorrect?

No, I'm not always by my pc and you didn't make an earlier appointment for my time. I quoted what I heard from Al Jazeera this afternoon.

symyjym · May 15, 2018

Westdene Seagull said:
Not if it means kicking out people from their homes that were perfectly entitled to be there and then setting up an apartheid state for those that manage to remain.

Build a better home and a better country, that's what the Greek Cypriots did.

The Jews were there first and they built the Mount for the temple using stone weighing many tens of ton in a monumental task. And the Muslims come along and build a Mosque where the temple once stood on top of the Mount and kick the Jews out.

Muslims think that their 3rd holiest place is more important than the Jews only holy place that predates Islam by 1,500 years. Muslims would turn Buckingham Palace into a mosque and claim as their own if they had half a chance.

seagulls4ever · May 15, 2018

symyjym said:
No, I'm not always by my pc and you didn't make an earlier appointment for my time. I quoted what I heard from Al Jazeera this afternoon.

Why would Al Jazeera provide information that's completely incorrect? You must have misheard or misunderstood what someone was saying, or perhaps someone being interviewed gave some incorrect figures. If the latter, it displays the importance of actually doing your own research rather than relying on what people say (resulting in a lot of confirmation bias).

There's really no excuse for not know basic information that's freely available, especially when you try to talk with authority on the subject. If you were educated on the subject, you'd know that those numbers you mentioned were incorrect. If someone says those numbers, and you were informed, instead of just believing it, you'd say hang on a minute, I'm sure that's not right, and look up the numbers. Given your lack of education concerning basic facts of the situation, your must have no informed opinion on the subject, and therefore your opinion is pretty much worthless.

I see this sort of thing all the time (wilfully and ignorantly) - concerning all sorts of different subjects - and it's incredibly frustrating. Access to information is available on a scale never before in human history, and yet people constantly get basic information wrong all the time. Often it's the result of people just repeating things others have said without actually doing their own research. It's depressing.

Tyrone Biggums · May 15, 2018

Gritt23 said:
Ok, you clearly have ridiculously large blinkers on, so there is no point listening to you on this matter.

Blame 7th Century Arabs all you want, but in life we have to learn how to progress, how to move forward, and that includes NOT ANTAGONISING a sensitive situation. You can stick your fingers in your ears and go la-la-la in a very loud voice if you want, but Trumps actions are taking us towards violence and away from a peaceful solution.

The irony of you saying we have to learn how to progress when talking about the middle east and its love for the most backwards of ideologies called Islam isn't lost on me.

Jerusalem is found within Israel. Israel considers Jerusalem it's capital. There never was a nation called Palestine.

East Jerusalem might still be in Arab hands if the Jordanians didn't go to war against the Israelis. But they did, and they lost.

None of that has anything to do with Trump.

Tyrone Biggums · May 15, 2018

Westdene Seagull said:
They didn't attack the North thanks to thousands of UN peacekeepers being in place over the years - even now there are hundreds.

So you think it's acceptable for them to just be displaced and get on with their lives ? Why should they be displaced through no fault of their own ? Why should they live under the tyrannical policies of Israel ? Why shouldn't they get their lands back ? Would you be accepting if someone just rocked up at your front door and said "Tough shit pal, move, we taking this place over" ?

Why do the native Irish have to live under British rule still?

Westdene Seagull · May 15, 2018

symyjym said:
Build a better home and a better country, that's what the Greek Cypriots did.

The Jews were there first and they built the Mount for the temple using stone weighing many tens of ton in a monumental task. And the Muslims come along and build a Mosque where the temple once stood on top of the Mount and kick the Jews out.

Muslims think that their 3rd holiest place is more important than the Jews only holy place that predates Islam by 1,500 years. Muslims would turn Buckingham Palace into a mosque and claim as their own if they had half a chance.

You're seriously suggesting ownership of the land HUNDREDS of years ago entitles Israeli to remove people from their lands, bulldoze their homes, use banned weapons, carry out terrorist murders abroad, murder British soldiers, attack UN schools and fire live ammo into groups of protestors ? Really ? :facepalm:

Let's hope the Romans don't come knocking.

Westdene Seagull · May 15, 2018

Tyrone Biggums said:
Why do the native Irish have to live under British rule still?

Not sure what the fvck that has to do with this BUT for the record, they shouldn't. In the early 1900's the British carried out some very vile acts against the Irish - much the same Israel is doing to Gaza now.

Tyrone Biggums · May 15, 2018

Westdene Seagull said:
Not sure what the fvck that has to do with this BUT for the record, they shouldn't. In the early 1900's the British carried out some very vile acts against the Irish - much the same Israel is doing to Gaza now.

It has plenty to do with it. The spoils of war.

However, it's different because the native Irish never attack mainland UK looking to wipe them out.

Israel secured East Jerusalem from Jordan in the 1967 war after the Jordanians attacked them.. Thus making it wholly Israeli territory.

Jordan itself was a nation created with help of the British in 1921.

The "Palestinians" have no ancient claim to the city. It's just a bunch of Arabs that don't want the Jews to have it.

knocky1 · May 15, 2018

Tyrone Biggums said:
Why do the native Irish have to live under British rule still?

I can hazard a guess. It must be either Obama, the Clintons or all of them. I'm beginning to see the wider picture.

Tyrone Biggums · May 15, 2018

knocky1 said:
I can hazard a guess. It must be either Obama, the Clintons or all of them. I'm beginning to see the wider picture.

Well it's nothing to do with Trump.

symyjym · May 15, 2018

Westdene Seagull said:
You're seriously suggesting ownership of the land HUNDREDS of years ago entitles Israeli to remove people from their lands, bulldoze their homes, use banned weapons, carry out terrorist murders abroad, murder British soldiers, attack UN schools and fire live ammo into groups of protestors ? Really ?

Let's hope the Romans don't come knocking.

On the premise that we have to be sensitive to all religion, not just Islam, it would not be fair for the Jews to not have their homeland. If the boot was on the other foot I would support the Muslims defending their historical land. The Jews were also kicked out of Medina and the Arab peninsular and were on the back end of genocide whilst retreating to Jerusalem. Then the Muslims kicked them out of Jerusalem as well and they fled to Europe.

I gave you an example of how the Greek Cypriots handled it when they were displaced.

symyjym · May 15, 2018

seagulls4ever said:
Why would Al Jazeera provide information that's completely incorrect? You must have misheard or misunderstood what someone was saying, or perhaps someone being interviewed gave some incorrect figures. If the latter, it displays the importance of actually doing your own research rather than relying on what people say (resulting in a lot of confirmation bias).

There's really no excuse for not know basic information that's freely available, especially when you try to talk with authority on the subject. If you were educated on the subject, you'd know that those numbers you mentioned were incorrect. If someone says those numbers, and you were informed, instead of just believing it, you'd say hang on a minute, I'm sure that's not right, and look up the numbers. Given your lack of education concerning basic facts of the situation, your must have no informed opinion on the subject, and therefore your opinion is pretty much worthless.

I see this sort of thing all the time (wilfully and ignorantly) - concerning all sorts of different subjects - and it's incredibly frustrating. Access to information is available on a scale never before in human history, and yet people constantly get basic information wrong all the time. Often it's the result of people just repeating things others have said without actually doing their own research. It's depressing.

Yes there are lots of figures and facts, it just depends on the context: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_exodus

"By the end of March 1948 thirty villages were depopulated of their Palestinian Arab population.[16]:82 Approximately 100,000 Palestinian Arabs had fled to Arab parts of Palestine, such as Gaza, Beersheba, Haifa, Nazareth, Nablus, Jaffa and Bethlehem."

Westdene Seagull · May 15, 2018

symyjym said:
I gave you an example of how the Greek Cypriots handled it when they were displaced.

And I pointed out they had no choice due to UN peacekeepers. I wonder when the UN will stop Israel murdering Palestinians ?

symyjym · May 15, 2018

Westdene Seagull said:
And I pointed out they had no choice due to UN peacekeepers. I wonder when the UN will stop Israel murdering Palestinians ?

As soon as the Muslims realise that they don't get extra rewards in heaven for the more they suffer. Bullets mean Allah prizes with this ideology.

I mentioned the story earlier of a Palestinian teenager who lost his leg to a bullet wound. He smiled at the camera and said that he can't wait to get down to the front line again.

rogersix · May 15, 2018

symyjym said:
Lifes not fair, but at least they had somewhere to go, build a new life and invest in themselves, and not the destruction of Israel. If the Jews didn't have Israel they would have no land at all whereas Islam spans continents with its historical bloody conquests. Do you believe that the Jews are not entitled to have a homeland?

in their own version of events didn't they flee their homeland of egypt (because of persecution) and then muscle in on canaan.
if everyone behaved the same it wouldn't be long before someone was knocking on your door.

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