[Albion] Do 1901ers get too many "loyalty" points?

Bozza · May 2, 2017

One of the pre-match conversations in the pub on Saturday focused upon the much-anticipated away fixtures we have next year.

For most games, we'll be allocated a maximum of 3,000 tickets which is, I believe, about the same number of 1901 Club members that we have. Whereas a season ticket holder starts a new season with 1,000 points plus half the points in excess of 1,000 that they finished with at the end of the preceding season, a 1901er starts with a base of 1,100 points.

Simply this means that a 1901er who has not been to a single away game over the last 4 or 5 seasons will have more points than a season ticket holder who has been to 10 away games each and every season.

One 1901er with our group mentioned how some of his 1901 neighbours, who had not been to an away game for some time, had penciled in 9 or 10 for next season, and I think we could all guess which most of those 9 or 10 games will be.

I have no issue with 1901ers getting more points than a season ticket holder, as the scheme is largely a "puts money into the club" scheme, but it doesn't seem right to me that someone who has not travelled away before could, say, go to Old Trafford when someone who has regularly been putting in the miles in the Championship misses out.

(There are also plenty of 1901ers who regularly travel away. This thread is not about them though, clearly - they'll have earned enough points to merit their place in the queue anyway)

Bob! · May 2, 2017

Yes.

Heard a similar conversation with a 1901er on Saturday who doesn't normally go to away games.

Titanic · May 2, 2017

We have had similar conversations in the pub etc... and yes, there are going to be a lot of disappointed fans missing out on away trips next season.

The 1901'ers already get significant benefits for the extra cash they put in... for me, the loyalty points seem an unnecessary step too far.

MattBackHome · May 2, 2017

I agree.

Petee · May 2, 2017

I am hoping that we have crappy away days early (Burnley/Stoke/West Brom etc.) so I can build up the loyalty points. I do plan on going to all of them but if I miss out due to 1901 homers then I may be just a tad pissed off.

I know it is money based but I see going to the arse end of nowhere away on a Tuesday night as more loyal than watching a tinpot cup game at the Amex. Although, I now know to go to said tinpot cup games at the Amex as it helps with the loyalty points.

Is it PotG? · May 2, 2017

....and they get a free programme at home.

I agree about the points being one step too far, especially considering where we are now.

'10' free away game points is not fair to those having visited far and wide over the past few seasons. That said, it's choice.

Herr Tubthumper · May 2, 2017

I agree it seems unfair that someone who hasn't been to a single away game can trump someone with many games under their belt. I think the loyalty scheme has worked well so far but this was in the context of The Championhip....it seemingly needs a tweak now.

Bry Nylon · May 2, 2017

*rushes to buy shares in Pringles*

Rod Marsh · May 2, 2017

I'm ok with it. It will act as incentive for people to continue to buy a 1901 ticket, particularly as the commitment is more than one season. I feel more sorry for the fans that can only watch away games because of cost or availability of home tickets.

Moshe Gariani · May 2, 2017

Titanic said:
We have had similar conversations in the pub etc... and yes, there are going to be a lot of disappointed fans missing out on away trips next season.

The 1901'ers already get significant benefits for the extra cash they put in... for me, the loyalty points seem an unnecessary step too far.

Agree with this. The scheme worked OK for the high demand games at the end of this season because the previously non-travelling 1901's were, by that stage, caught up and overtaken by more "loyal" away fans.

Unless changed the "loyalty points" scheme will not be fit for purpose.

BobbySmith · May 2, 2017

Bozza said:
One of the pre-match conversations in the pub on Saturday focused upon the much-anticipated away fixtures we have next year.

For most games, we'll be allocated a maximum of 3,000 tickets which is, I believe, about the same number of 1901 Club members that we have. Whereas a season ticket holder starts a new season with 1,000 points plus half the points in excess of 1,000 that they finished with at the end of the preceding season, a 1901er starts with a base of 1,100 points.

Simply this means that a 1901er who has not been to a single away game over the last 4 or 5 seasons will have more points than a season ticket holder who has been to 10 away games each and every season.

One 1901er with our group mentioned how some of his 1901 neighbours, who had not been to an away game for some time, had penciled in 9 or 10 for next season, and I think most of us could guess which most of those 9 or 10 could be.

I have no issue with 1901ers getting more points than a season ticket holder, as the scheme is largely a "puts money into the club" scheme, but it doesn't seem right to me that someone who has not travelled away before could, say, go to Old Trafford when someone who has regularly been putting in the miles in the Championship misses out.

(There are also plenty of 1901ers who regularly travel away. This thread is not about them though, clearly - they'll have earned enough points to merit their place in the queue anyway)

Its a very good debate and we were discussing this on Saturday night and we had our 10 1901 members and think 6 of us had enough points for the Villa game, but we do go away a lot, so fair enough. I thought that they keep over loyalty points from previous seasons, so think any non 1901 club members who attended a lot of away games would get a good starter total. not sure what the answer is. I am not convinced that we pay more money is the number one reason to have a priority, nor I am convinced that we should be treated different, but the most of us would have the loyalty points without the extra 100 points. So as long as that treat me the same as other STH and regular away fans, then not really bothered about the extra points.

Bozza · May 2, 2017

I know the rigid "10 games a season, every season" example is not realistic, but I think it provides a good illustration.

Giraffe · May 2, 2017

I'm not convinced that many more 1901 ers will go to more away games next season than this. Also worth noting that there are a lot of 1901 members who are loyal fans and who already do go to a lot of away games as well anyway. After Villa I will have done 19 of the 23, my friend 16.

I'm therefore not sure the extra 100 points will make that much difference to this. Will a 1901 er who has never been to an away game suddenly try and go away 9-10 times a season. I doubt that. Also consider a lot are owned by companies who's staff sometimes use them but are not interested enough to organise their arses into gear to buy away tickets. They are more of a "theres a ticket going for saturdays game" type of person.

The club also made a bid deal about 1901 club members having priority on away games when they were selling the original package. This has gradually been watered down but the 100 point buffer is I suppose the remains of this. Would be hard for them to back out of this now.

The problem will be I suspect if one of the London clubs or Bournemouth come up early in the season when STH's who travel to all away games won't have had chance to catch up the shortfall?

However if you are a STH who went to most away games last season against a 1901er who didn't you benefit from the 50% of the loyalty points being passed over from last season anyway?

Finally I'd also add the threshold the club start selling at is generally so low as to make this discussion a bit pointless. They may change that next season but I doubt it.

Goldstone1976 · May 2, 2017

I have recently had similar conversations, and agree that the starting points are too high; not 100 too high for reasons I'll get to in a sec, but too high.

Originally, 1901ers had a 30 point premium over standard ST, for no apparent reason other than some combination of a greater financial contribution &/or contract length (1901er are committed for 5 years, rather than one.) The club then introduced a "Gold" std ST, which included all home league and cup games. For this, the club said that instead of earning additional LP for cup games (you get 20 LP for each home cup game), you'd get a fixed additional LP, meaning that Gold STH got a starting LP of 1050 (but no additional points for attending home cup games).

Given that a 1901er gets home cup games included in the package and doesn't earn additional LP for attending those games, it seems to me that the minimum LP a 1901er should get is 1050. If the club wanted to maintain the original 30 point discrepancy, then there's an argument for saying that the LP should be 1080. I can't really see an argument for 1100.

[MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION]'s argument about 10 away games is mathematically correct, but it does ignore the fact that in most seasons, there will be two or three home cup games. Two reduce the differential between a 1901er and a standard STH to 60 LP; three to 40 LP (go on a half-decent cup run, and be drawn at home all the time, and the differential disappears entirely).

Somewhere in the range of 1060-1080 seems to me about right...

Neville's Breakfast · May 2, 2017

Bozza said:
I know the rigid "10 games a season, every season" example is not realistic, but I think it provides a good illustration.

View attachment 84921

The effect is at least partially offset by the broad points bands set by the club. There were complaints on here when the second tier of sales for Norwich went to 1050 points but it did lessen the 1901 extra points effect. Perhaps a similar tiering could have been used for Villa and going forward for next season.

sparkie · May 2, 2017

Bozza said:
One of the pre-match conversations in the pub on Saturday focused upon the much-anticipated away fixtures we have next year.

For most games, we'll be allocated a maximum of 3,000 tickets which is, I believe, about the same number of 1901 Club members that we have. Whereas a season ticket holder starts a new season with 1,000 points plus half the points in excess of 1,000 that they finished with at the end of the preceding season, a 1901er starts with a base of 1,100 points.

Simply this means that a 1901er who has not been to a single away game over the last 4 or 5 seasons will have more points than a season ticket holder who has been to 10 away games each and every season.

One 1901er with our group mentioned how some of his 1901 neighbours, who had not been to an away game for some time, had penciled in 9 or 10 for next season, and I think we could all guess which most of those 9 or 10 games will be.

I have no issue with 1901ers getting more points than a season ticket holder, as the scheme is largely a "puts money into the club" scheme, but it doesn't seem right to me that someone who has not travelled away before could, say, go to Old Trafford when someone who has regularly been putting in the miles in the Championship misses out.

(There are also plenty of 1901ers who regularly travel away. This thread is not about them though, clearly - they'll have earned enough points to merit their place in the queue anyway)

They say that, but when it comes to it will they really go to that many ? When it comes to getting acts together, getting family permission passes, sacrificing other events in the dairy etc. I can't see too many radical changes to routines.

Bozza · May 2, 2017

sparkie said:
They say that, but when it comes to it will they really go to that many ? When it comes to getting acts together, getting family permission passes, sacrificing other events in the dairy I can't see too many radical changes to routines.

Maybe, maybe not. But should a "never been away" 1901er be ahead in the queue of a "10 away games every year" season ticket holder?

Notters · May 2, 2017

Yes I think it's too many. Perhaps a way to even out the disparity would be to give STHs who commit to 5 seasons the same number.

sparkie · May 2, 2017

Bozza said:
Maybe, maybe not. But should a "never been away" 1901er be ahead in the queue of a "10 away games every year" season ticket holder?

Possibly, I don't have too strong a view.

I just think in practice the numbers won't be that significant - ie those 1901s who already go away will not be joined by too many J-C-1901-Away-Ls.

Goldstone1976 · May 2, 2017

sparkie said:
They say that, but when it comes to it will they really go to that many ? When it comes to getting acts together, getting family permission passes, sacrificing other events in the dairy etc. I can't see too many radical changes to routines.

My two 1901 neighbours have said that they will be going to ~10 away games next season, having both only been to two this season (Brentford and Fulham). I too wonder whether they will, when push comes to shove.

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[Albion] Do 1901ers get too many "loyalty" points?

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