Fiscal Failings from Labour Again

Herr Tubthumper · Apr 23, 2017

larus said:
Really, make your mind up.

One minute you're on about the deficit and the Tories being economically incompetent, then you're saying that all they want to do is cut.

I think it is economically incompetent, and myopic, to make these cuts. My preference is to grow the economy thereby increasing tax revenue, and make others pay their fair share of taxes. This tax income from a bigger, buoyant and balanced economy will reduce the deficit. My mind is made up and clear. What element of this are you struggling with?

The Clamp · Apr 23, 2017

The UK is always better off under Labour. Fact.
The Tories have made an unmitigated disaster of running this country. Look at the mess they have created and then run away. The EU Brexit representative today called Theresa May deluded for thinking a general election will make the slightest difference to negotiations. Yet people still vote against their own interests and vote them back in.

Moronic.

Hampster Gull · Apr 23, 2017

Dorset Seagull said:
Both left and right on here seem to be so blinkered to their own view that everything is black or white with no grey. There is a middle ground somewhere which is not being properly exploited by any third party leaving many of us voters virtually without a vote.

Very true, there is a gap. In many country its been exploited by populist politicians but there could be other ways.

Kalimantan Gull · Apr 23, 2017

bashlsdir said:
About time we all started taking responsibility and think about paying a bit more for our healthcare, cut back on the waste, and put a plan in place to start training our own doctors and nurses again so we don't need to bring in people to do the jobs. We also need a plan so we put money away for our old age, so in the event of needing a nursing care the facilities and care is there.

I agree

Hampster Gull · Apr 23, 2017

Herr Tubthumper said:
I think it is economically incompetent, and myopic, to make these cuts. My preference is to grow the economy thereby increasing tax revenue, and make others pay their fair share of taxes, to reduce the deficit. My mind is made up and clear. What element of this are you struggling with?

Growing the economy is the only way. How we do that is the 6m dollar question. Free up entrepreneurs, encourage businesses, grow manufacturing, government to get out of the way unless essential, support only those who cant support themselves etc

Kalimantan Gull · Apr 23, 2017

Dorset Seagull said:
Both left and right on here seem to be so blinkered to their own view that everything is black or white with no grey. There is a middle ground somewhere which is not being properly exploited by any third party leaving many of us voters virtually without a vote.

absolutely

Kalimantan Gull · Apr 23, 2017

Hampster Gull said:
It wasn't funny. He was there to serve the country not ridicule it. A qoute from him in the Guardian

" I am so sorry. David Cameron’s daily flourish of my leaving note at the Treasury helped hurt the party I love. And offered sheer offence to so many of the people we want the chance to serve. Party members ask me: “What on earth were you thinking?” But members of the public ask: “How could you do something so crass? And so bloody offensive?”

I’ve asked myself that question every day for five years and believe me, every day I have burnt with the shame of it. Nowhere more than when standing on doorsteps with good comrades, listening to voters demanding to know what I thought I was playing at. It was always excruciating."

doesn't mean it wasn't a joke, Tories just decided to not find it funny and use it against Labour. Typical snidey *******s.

Hampster Gull · Apr 23, 2017

Kalimantan Gull said:
doesn't mean it wasn't a joke, Tories just decided to not find it funny and use it against Labour. Typical snidey *******s.

Read what the man himself says, it wasn't only tories who found it disgraceful, it was his own active party members. A public servant ridiculing the public he serves

The Clamp · Apr 23, 2017

larus said:
What is it with the lefties? Are they really totally economically illiterate?

First, they moan about austerity (which, by the way, we haven't had in the UK contrary to popular belief), then, because the government has kept the level of public services high (NHS, education, benefits, pensions, etc.), they then moan about the level of debt.

The level of deficit (not debt which is an accumulation) was f*cking high because of the total, incompetence of the last Labour administration (which didn't reduce national debt during the realtive boom years in the early 2000's). So, when the recession happened, there was no real safety net and the deficit shot up. The deficit has been reducing, but of course, until there is a SURPLUS then the debt will keep increasing.

SO, please can these SUPER INTELLIGENT (yeah, right) lefties advise what should be cut IMMEDIATELY to reduce the deficit and to start to reduce the national debt.

Bankers wages, corporation tax, jobs for spouses, cutting tax breaks. That should be a good start.

Herr Tubthumper · Apr 23, 2017

Hampster Gull said:
Growing the economy is the only way. How we do that is the 6m dollar question. Free up entrepreneurs, encourage businesses, grow manufacturing, government to get out of the way unless essential, support only those who cant support themselves etc

I'll drop the last two. I will also suggest focussing on medium to small privately owned businesses. Above all though, I'd suggest making all of this part of a very clear and visible economic strategy. At the moment no one, politicians, economic leaders or the public has a clue what the nation's economic vision is.

Breakfast time, später.

jakarta · Apr 23, 2017

carlzeiss said:
Increasing migration numbers will ease the UK's economic woes .

Sign the Independent petition and make a difference . Together we can make Britain great again .

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ign-the-independent-theresa-may-a7693946.html

You didn't say there was a photo of the lovely Diane Abbot right at the top the article, nearly

my breakfast...

Soulman · Apr 23, 2017

Biscuit Barrel said:
I understand your desire to stay in the EU with regards to free movement of people and human rights. I do not understand your stance that the EU is some kind of economic safe house.

Spain, Greece, Portugal, Ireland and Italy (to name just a few) have all had huge financial issues and disgusting levels of unemployment.

The economy was the main reason I voted leave.

The French vote today, including the 40% unemployed between the ages of 18-25.
Good old EU.

GingerBeerMan · Apr 23, 2017

larus said:
What is it with the lefties? Are they really totally economically illiterate?

First, they moan about austerity (which, by the way, we haven't had in the UK contrary to popular belief), then, because the government has kept the level of public services high (NHS, education, benefits, pensions, etc.), they then moan about the level of debt.

The level of deficit (not debt which is an accumulation) was f*cking high because of the total, incompetence of the last Labour administration (which didn't reduce national debt during the realtive boom years in the early 2000's). So, when the recession happened, there was no real safety net and the deficit shot up. The deficit has been reducing, but of course, until there is a SURPLUS then the debt will keep increasing.

SO, please can these SUPER INTELLIGENT (yeah, right) lefties advise what should be cut IMMEDIATELY to reduce the deficit and to start to reduce the national debt.

You seem to forget there is a difference between spending and investment. An investment now - or in 2010, as argued by people such as Vince Cable - would cause an increase in tax receipts in the future and therefore an ability to reduce the deficit without cutting spending on vital public services. The tories are hell-bent on reducing spending on public services and are justifying it with the line of 'balancing the books' and 'undoing the mess left by labour'. At the same time they're reducing tax rates for the most wealthy in society and corporations; we now have the lowest corporation tax in the G7 by ~10% and it's been falling year-on-year since the conservatives took power.

Government spending is not a black hole - when the government spends money it goes straight into the economy, getting multiplied in the process. Tax breaks for the wealthy is what causes money to disappear. Remember, to reduce debt as a % of GDP we can also increase GDP - something government spending does very well if invested wisely.

In my experience the people who lap up the conservatives rhetoric regarding the economy are less economically literate as they don't have a good understanding of how economics works beyond 'debt bad, cut spending'.

The Birdman · Apr 23, 2017

Could somebody remind what note was left in the exchequer by the out going Labour Goverment after 3 terms in power. I'll give you a clue you could not spend it.

GoldWithFalmer · Apr 23, 2017

Soulman said:
The French vote today, including the 40% unemployed between the ages of 18-25.
Good old EU.

We seem to fare as a nation,quite well in that regard,although it would be interesting to know if zero hour contracts and such like are factored in/out.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/266228/youth-unemployment-rate-in-eu-countries/

Herr Tubthumper · Apr 23, 2017

Soulman said:
The French vote today, including the 40% unemployed between the ages of 18-25.
Good old EU.

First we took Holland. Next we take France. EU on the rise.

GingerBeerMan · Apr 23, 2017

Soulman said:
The French vote today, including the 40% unemployed between the ages of 18-25.
Good old EU.

Lots of periods in recent history when France had very low youth unemployment - I don't suspect you were congratulating the EU then? You can actually see the youth unemployment peaks in years after a recession (1991/2001/2008) and would suggest it's actually strongly linked to economic performance rather than 'being in the EU' or not.

A little bit of research goes a long way - but then I guess if everyone thought that the 52% would have voted to leave, would they?

Soulman · Apr 23, 2017

larus said:
What do you mean by that bland statement?
Do you mean create legislation for the remuneration a PRIVATE company can pay it's employees?
Do you mean having a different TAX system for people in a certain profession?

I get you're a lefty and probably envious of others success (which I'm not by the way, and I don't approve of excessive taxation - 40% is more than enough). The problem is the large corporations using tricks to avoid tax, but this problem is an international one and not a national one.

Your snide and easy comment is part of the problem with politics, taxation and spending. No-one wants to have a real, sensible and honest discussion about affordability. For example, the public sector workers in the past retiring on 2/3 final salary after working for say 23-30 years. Just think about that. A fireman could work from 20 until 50, and then retire on 2/3 final salary (index linked) for another 30 years.

Until you lefties want to discuss everything honestly, we're pissing in thw wind. Pathetic comments about bankers just prove it.

You are spot on re public service workers pensions. The amount paid out is enormous.
Same as 4 bank hols for Saints day, one is enough, fine for those that get paid I suppose.

Deleted member 22389 · Apr 23, 2017

Hampster Gull said:
Growing the economy is the only way. How we do that is the 6m dollar question. Free up entrepreneurs, encourage businesses, grow manufacturing, government to get out of the way unless essential, support only those who cant support themselves etc

Manufacturing that is the key here, we need this more than anything else. We have enough supermarkets & coffee shops.

A mex eyecan · Apr 23, 2017

I'm not getting into Labour wrong Tory wrong issues, but let's look at the subject this thread started about and that was granting an additional 4 bank holidays each year.

Assuming most people have these off paid that adds just under another 2% to employers wage bills .... how's that paid for then? As well as causing disruption to services for those businesses who still do operate a five day working week, probably meaning they have to bring in casual labour for a day each week there is a bank holiday so they can squeeze five days work into four, thereby meaning the cost to them is more likely 4% overall when taking the above costs and employers NI contributions into account ..

Oh and also caught the tail end this morning of the green deputy (I think) spouting on about introducing a 3 day weekend. Presumably he expect pay to still be the same as it is for a 2 day weekend.

All sounds lovely to me, apart from the fact that it will either help drive many companies out of business or just help fuel the fire of inflating prices to cover the costs. Thereby increasing the wages we all need to earn to pay the higher till prices , and so the spiral continues.

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Fiscal Failings from Labour Again

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