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General Election 2017



beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,312
cirC said:
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thats a pretty poor effort to be fair, not sure a couple are even true and one goes back a couple of generations...

...but there is a really significant charge in there which came from the left of the party: creating a generation of dependency. which is responsible for a lot of the financial problems today. the welfare budget rocketed 50%, from £59bn to £90bn between 2002 and 2008 when the economy was considered to doing well and inflation av. ~3.4%. the continuity of those policies post 2008 took welfare to near £120bn in 2012, doubled in 10 years, a 140% increase in real terms. this isn't just for the unemployed, disabled, and poor, its tax credits and similar state benefits for people not really needing it by normal measures - you can earn mid 30k and still get child tax credits. that's tens of billions a year spent on hand outs rather than education or health services. thats Brown's legacy.
 




GT49er

GT49er

Well-known member
Feb 1, 2009
46,746
Gloucester
Gwylan said:
I keep hearing this and it's something I genuinely don't understand. Both parties have made it clear (and the EU negotiating team have made it clear) that the PM will not be greatly involved in negotiations with the EU - it will be David Davis or Keir Starmer. And Labour has a clear edge there - Starmer is a QC, used to arguing the toss, Davis isn't.
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This is a classic case of taking on part of my post, whilst ignoring the most significant part. Yes, I do think JC would be a slightly less effective negotiator than TM, but I accept that that is my on personal subjective view. I still hold to that, btw.
But the next bit of my post, which you chose to ignore, goes on to say, "but we [and JC, who the PLP would dearly love to topple in any sort of coup] would be betrayed by the PLP who almost to a man (or woman) are wholly with the LibDems and the Greens in wanting a second referendum in the hope that the electorate would change its mind."
Regardless of how good - or otherwise - JC might be as a negotiator, his 'own' side will stab him in the back and cancel Brexit as soon as you could say knife (in the back). Seriously, would you expect the PLP to achieve Brexit (haven't you heard their guru, Mr, Blair's, views on overturning the referendum)?
 
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JC Footy Genius

JC Footy Genius

Bringer of TRUTH
Jun 9, 2015
10,568
DAXhRG_W0AMYghS.jpg

Basically, it boils down to this .. yes the Tories are pretty sh*t but they aren't extremist, anti-British, terrorist/ Marxist sympathising loons .. vote sanity/responsibility ..:thumbsup:
 










bWize

bWize

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2007
1,685
cirC said:
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Re-reading this in full CirC has to either be a troll or seriously misinformed.

1) Labour created the bedroom taxI think you will find that was the Tories! Would love to see a credible source where it states Labour created the bedroom tax... - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedroom_tax

2) Lied about Iraq - Agree to an extent, but Blair/Labour were a very different party to what is currently on offer. There was also a huge global influence from America and the powers that be and felt the whole thing went well beyond home politics. Blair was a stooge and I think that is becoming more and more clear as time goes by. Besides, the Tories also voted to go to war with Iraq and since then, Libya.

3) Didn't build any houses - You gotta be kidding right? Labour originally created the council house system that helped many less fortunate people since the 1920's. It was Thatcher that encouraged tenants lucky enough to obtain one to buy for themselves and make a profit, which ultimately led to a decline in housing for poorer families of future generations. (Obviously wasn't what they were intended for)

4) Closed 252 Mines - Now I know you're trolling!

Literally everything on that list are Tory policies and ideals.
 
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G

Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,339
Uffern
GT49er said:
But the next bit of my post, which you chose to ignore, goes on to say, "but we [and JC, who the PLP would dearly love to topple in any sort of coup]would be betrayed by the PLP who almost to a man (or woman) are wholly with the LibDems and the Greens in wanting a second referendum in the hope that the electorate would change its mind."
Regardless of how good - or otherwise - JC might be as a negotiator, his 'own' side will stab him in the back and cancel Brexit as soon as you could say knife (in the back). Seriously, would you expect the PLP to achieve Brexit (haven't you heard their guru, Mr, Blair's, views on overturning the referendum)?
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I ignored it because it's nonsense. Corbyn has won two leadership elections by overwhelming majorities, despite little support from the PLP. They can try all they like to stab him in the back but he's got massive support in the Labour Party - he's going nowhere.
 


GT49er

GT49er

Well-known member
Feb 1, 2009
46,746
Gloucester
Gwylan said:
I ignored it because it's nonsense. Corbyn has won two leadership elections by overwhelming majorities, despite little support from the PLP. They can try all they like to stab him in the back but he's got massive support in the Labour Party - he's going nowhere.
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Little support? What political dream world are you living in? NO support from the bulk of the PLP. Get real. The members who took advantage of the cheap to join offer are the Corbyn supporters (even though many of them only joined to make mischief). The PLP is as far up Junckers rectum as the LibDems and the Greens.
That's why, in spite of a brilliant Labour campaign (which has focussed, very astutely, on 'real' people - anybody except the PLP), the Tories will win the election. Fact.
Sorry if you don't like it (and for the record, I don't much like the idea of another Tory government either), but I'm damned if I'm going to risk the luvvies in the Westminster bubble, including the PLP, finding a way to overturn the referendum.
 


S

soistes

Well-known member
Sep 12, 2012
2,643
Brighton
JC Footy Genius said:
Yeah the entire leadership of one political party are proven to be in bed with terrorist scum Meanwhile some obscure councillor is the same thing ... grow up.:tosser:
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"Entire leadership" "in bed with terrorist scum"? What are you on about?

And there's really no need to be unpleasant.

I was just pointing out that Tories are not immune to embarrassing histories.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 




studio150

studio150

Well-known member
Jul 30, 2011
29,628
On the Border
GT49er said:
Little support? What political dream world are you living in? NO support from the bulk of the PLP. Get real.
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So basically little support.

Throwing in the use of capital letters to try and suggest he has no support from the PLP. However once you get past the bulk of the PLP the rest of the PLP do support him, So overall little support, but for some reason you can't come out and actually agree with that statement despite saying the same in a different way.

Very strange,
 


JC Footy Genius

JC Footy Genius

Bringer of TRUTH
Jun 9, 2015
10,568
soistes said:
"Entire leadership" "in bed with terrorist scum"? What are you on about?

And there's really no need to be unpleasant.

I was just pointing out that Tories are not immune to embarrassing histories.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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See Andrew Neil interview .. Corbyn, McDonnell,Abbott all bolstering/supporting the IRA.

There is no comparison your example is comparable to someone like Harold Shipman complaining about patient care because some nurses didn't wash their hands.
 








beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,312
Arundel_Seagull said:
Re-reading this in full CirC has to either be a troll or seriously misinformed.
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lets read it again.
Labour put out a tender to run Hinchingbrooke hospital, won by a private company.
house building is presumably in reference to the fact fewer council houses built in the entire New Labour period than in a single year under Thatcher.
mines closed is a reference to the 60's under Wilson.
Work Capability Assessment came in 2007.
Labour brought in tax credits for people in work, creating state dependency.
Labour liberally used PFI to shift cost of new schools and hospitals off the balance sheet (at significant long term cost).
Labour definatly introduced tuition fees.

apart from that, its misinformed.
 


nicko31

nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
17,608
Gods country fortnightly


drew

drew

Drew
Oct 3, 2006
23,067
Burgess Hill
beorhthelm said:
lets read it again.
Labour put out a tender to run Hinchingbrooke hospital, won by a private company.
house building is presumably in reference to the fact fewer council houses built in the entire New Labour period than in a single year under Thatcher.
mines closed is a reference to the 60's under Wilson.
Work Capability Assessment came in 2007.
Labour brought in tax credits for people in work, creating state dependency.
Labour liberally used PFI to shift cost of new schools and hospitals off the balance sheet (at significant long term cost).
Labour definatly introduced tuition fees.

apart from that, its misinformed.
Click to expand...

https://fullfact.org/economy/who-built-more-council-houses-margaret-thatcher-or-new-labour/


As for tax credits, did they create state dependency or was it the initial low wage in the first place?

Referring to mines, between 1947 and 1997, Labour closed 345 mines and the Tories 597. Main difference being that, apparently, Labour closed mines with agreements in place with the Unions. Arthur Scargill was dumb enough to be goaded into doing exactly what the Tories wanted.

Is anyone really complaining about the principle of WCA? The problem stemmed from the poor assessments made under the coalition government when over 50k assessments were successfully appealed.
 
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El Presidente

El Presidente

The ONLY Gay in Brighton
Helpful Moderator
Jul 5, 2003
39,713
Pattknull med Haksprut
I've not contributed to this thread as I have no interest in party politics.

However, last night I was watching a gig by The Mission (It was Wayne Hussey's 59th birthday) and somewhat bizarrely, as the gig finished (with Wasteland) I was phoned by Radio 4 at 11pm.

They wanted to know my views on Jeremy Corbyn's plans to force the Premier League to give 5% of its income to grassroots football.

I'm no fan of the Premier League as many of you will know but I said:

1) It's populist nonsense

2) The Premier League loses money each year, so where will the money come from? There's a world of difference between income and profit.

3) If you cut players wages to pay for it the government will lose the 45p in the pound they presently take in income tax. So they will lose with one hand what they give with the other.

4) The Premier League already give over £100m a year to grassroots projects.

5) It's not fair on small clubs such as Crystal Palace.
 




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