General Election 2017

Raleigh Chopper · May 2, 2017

Ernest said:
You wouldn't have a got within a mile of her, she even had local reporters locked in a cupboard earlier to avoid any questions

One got to chat with her in Cornwall today and gave her a bit of an earful, she said she wanted to meet the voters face to face rather than Debate on TV, she got her wish today but was trying her hardest to get away, she kept walking while the person was trying to talk to her,I thought she was going to break out into a sprint.

Soulman · May 2, 2017

ManOfSussex said:
Why did Thatcher meet with him in the 1980's? Then John Major?

Sorry i thought the photo was of May, a fairly recent one, post his terrorist days, when he was a "proper" politician, after Labour excused him, that was the one i was replying to.

ManOfSussex · May 2, 2017

GT49er said:
The only question really is, did Chamberlain make a vital decision that saved Britain by luck or accident, or did he deserve more credit than he generally got (I'm in the first camp).

In answer to that question - no. Chamberlain shafted us all - The UK, it's people, our empire and Europe. By decisive and realistic engagement well within ours and our allies means it could have been avoided, prevented and a different course plotted. He died, Churchill did what he did and we went Labour in 1945 to achieve real things like freedom for India, The NHS and us getting on the top table on the newly formed UN by obtaining nuclear weapons. I lost a Great Uncle in 1944 and I've visited his grave - it wasn't a price worth paying and it could have been avoided.

ManOfSussex · May 2, 2017

Soulman said:
Sorry i thought the photo was of May, a fairly recent one, post his terrorist days, when he was a "proper" politician, after Labour excused him, that was the one i was replying to.

Thatcher spoke directly with him in the 1980's, once the predominantly English Conservative party woke up and smelt some realism on Ireland when he was still a terrorist - I'm not saying for one moment he wasn't. Thatcher spoke to him, Major spoke to him, Blair spoke to him, Good Friday happened. Don't blame due process on Westminster collectively coming to its senses - it's non-party political. The end game was good for us all.

GT49er · May 2, 2017

ManOfSussex said:
Why did Thatcher meet with him in the 1980's? Then John Major?

Because terrorism is generally ended when the more successful terrorists become presidents and or statesmen.
Garribaldi
Mao-Tse-Tung
Eamon de Valera
Archbishop Makarios
Menachim Begin
Colonel Gaddafi (sp?)
Robert Mugabwe (although he is still actually a terrorist and a murdering *******)
Martin McGuinness -
- the list goes on. Eventually, talks with 'proper' politicians take place.

ManOfSussex · May 2, 2017

GT49er said:
Because terrorism is generally ended when the more successful terrorists become presidents and or statesmen.
Garribaldi
Mao-Tse-Tung
Eamon de Valera
Archbishop Makarios
Menachim Begin
Colonel Gaddafi (sp?)
Robert Mugabwe (although he is still actually a terrorist and a murdering *******)
Martin McGuinness -
- the list goes on. Eventually, talks with 'proper' politicians take place.

Yep, like The Tories did with McGuinness, Mugabwe, Gaddafi, Begin, de Valera,.............They're well accustomed to it - who could forget this:

GT49er · May 2, 2017

ManOfSussex said:
In answer to that question - no. Chamberlain shafted us all - The UK, it's people, our empire and Europe. By decisive and realistic engagement well within ours and our allies means it could have been avoided, prevented and a different course plotted. He died, Churchill did what he did and we went Labour in 1945 to achieve real things like freedom for India, The NHS and us getting on the top table on the newly formed UN by obtaining nuclear weapons. I lost a Great Uncle in 1944 and I've visited his grave - it wasn't a price worth paying and it could have been avoided.

Sorry, your assessment of the military situation in 1938 is on a par with those that thought the Great War would be over by Christmas 1914. Terrible as it was, WWII was a necessary evil, and the outcome was the right one - even if it was a case of muddling through with a great deal of pluck, luck and courage.
I lost an uncle killed on active service too (not even a great uncle!). He's buried in the Hartington Road cemetery.

Herr Tubthumper · May 2, 2017

ManOfSussex said:
Yep, like The Tories did with McGuinness, Mugabwe, Gaddafi, Begin, de Valera,.............They're well accustomed to it - who could forget this:

View attachment 84941

And let's not forget Pinochet

GT49er · May 2, 2017

ManOfSussex said:
Yep, like The Tories did with McGuinness, Mugabwe, Gaddafi, Begin, de Valera,.............They're well accustomed to it - who could forget this.

Don't put this down to party politics; it is a matter of Government. After all, the British Government that handed over Rhodesia to Murderer Mugabwe was Harold Wilson's Labour Government; I don't suppose they liked it much, but he seemed the best of a bad lot at the time. And don't forget poor old Her Maj - she's had to shake the paw of some pretty unsavoury characters in her time. It goes with the job.
I said that some terrorists do become presidents and statesmen; I didn't say they were all good.

Don Quixote · May 2, 2017

General Election - first poll

I for one am looking forward to a strong and stable government. Be a change from the last one.

ManOfSussex · May 2, 2017

GT49er said:
Sorry, your assessment of the military situation in 1938 is on a par with those that thought the Great War would be over by Christmas 1914. Terrible as it was, WWII was a necessary evil, and the outcome was the right one - even if it was a case of muddling through with a great deal of pluck, luck and courage.
I lost an uncle killed on active service too (not even a great uncle!). He's buried in the Hartington Road cemetery.

I disagree, but I'm not getting into an argument with you over this. WW2 could have been avoided in 1938, just like a decisive victory at Jutland would have ended the first war early.

I lost a Great Uncle in WWII who's buried in Normandy and who's grave I've been honoured to visit twice in my life, including seeing my Dad cry at the gravestone at the realisation it could have been his Father, my Grandad, who served at the same time as his Uncle/brother as they were roughly the same age. I know your opinion on The EU and Brexit differs from mine, I'm sure you can see why these differences of opinion cause disagreement. I respect your Uncle and my Great Uncle's sacrifice for us to have that disagreement and am grateful to both of them, although I never knew them, that we are able to have those disagreements.

The Rivet · May 2, 2017

ManOfSussex said:
I'm of the historical train of thought that an assertive military action, started upon the French/German border, backed by The Royal Navy at sea and The RAF in the air and aided not only by France but by the Czechoslovakian's Slavic brethren in The Soviet Union who would have come to their aid and The Czechoslovakian's own quite sophisticated defence system in 1938 within their own territorial borders prior to them getting shafted at Munich, which were mostly in The Sudetenland territory, would have stopped Hitler in his tracks. We didn't do it though. We stayed out - It was but a quarrel in a far away country between people of whom we know nothing remember - The Conservative and Unionist Party said so. Not worth a drop of British blood and The Americans were against it too, plus we had a comprehensive free trade deal with India then as we were bleeding it dry through empire, so diplomacy in the continent with our near neighbours wasn't needed.

The Czechs had an army of 42 divisions and two brigades - more than 600,000 men and 4 air regiments. The Czechs had 350 tanks and 73 tankettes, along with about 70 armoured cars. The Czech army had the world's highest amount of automatic weapons per soldier (1/7 soldiers) in September 1938 and plenty of excellent artillery.

The Sudetenland is the German name to refer to those northern, southern, and western areas of Czechoslovakia which were inhabited primarily by ethnic German speakers making up approximately one third of the population. Civil war could have been a real issue. United the Czechs could fight. Internally divided = basically buggered.

Once it became clear that Germany was a threat, the RAF started on a large expansion, with many airfields being set up and the number of squadrons increased. From 42 squadrons with 800 aircraft in 1934, the RAF had reached 157 (combined ability) squadrons and 3,700 aircraft by 1939. They combined the newly developed radar with communications centres to direct their fighter defences. Their medium bombers were capable of reaching the German industrial centre of the Ruhr, and larger bombers were under development. In 1939 RAF Bomber Command had 23 operational bomber squadrons, with 280 aircraft. This modest force gave Britain the means to immediately strike back at Nazi Germany, but only against strictly military targets at first.

War hadn't officially broken out between the UK and Germany, Poland had yet to be invaded let alone France. Technically you are correct and your knowledge of ww2 quite good. However the political scenario didn't exist at the time for that ideological theory to become reality. The Americans were still two years from entering the war.

The RAF did not have the range for the Czechoslovakia border and no agreement for bases in France.

ManOfSussex · May 2, 2017

The Rivet said:
The Czechs had an army of 42 divisions and two brigades - more than 600,000 men and 4 air regiments. The Czechs had 350 tanks and 73 tankettes, along with about 70 armoured cars. The Czech army had the world's highest amount of automatic weapons per soldier (1/7 soldiers) in September 1938 and plenty of excellent artillery.

The Sudetenland is the German name to refer to those northern, southern, and western areas of Czechoslovakia which were inhabited primarily by ethnic German speakers making up approximately one third of the population. Civil war could have been a real issue. United the Czechs could fight. Internally divided = basically buggered.

Once it became clear that Germany was a threat, the RAF started on a large expansion, with many airfields being set up and the number of squadrons increased. From 42 squadrons with 800 aircraft in 1934, the RAF had reached 157 (combined ability) squadrons and 3,700 aircraft by 1939. They combined the newly developed radar with communications centres to direct their fighter defences. Their medium bombers were capable of reaching the German industrial centre of the Ruhr, and larger bombers were under development. In 1939 RAF Bomber Command had 23 operational bomber squadrons, with 280 aircraft. This modest force gave Britain the means to immediately strike back at Nazi Germany, but only against strictly military targets at first.

War hadn't officially broken out between the UK and Germany, Poland had yet to be invaded let alone France. Technically you are correct and your knowledge of ww2 quite good. However the political scenario didn't exist at the time for that ideological theory to become reality. The Americans were still two years from entering the war.

I'll take that as a compliment and declare that my opinion is also based on having an ex-Czech girlfriend, of Slovakian heritage, and therefore my opinion is based on people living in Havirov in the east of the modern day Czech Republic who I met, spoke to and who actually remember the Wehrmacht advance east, as my ex-girlfriends granddaughter actually did. A war cemetery in the Catholic Church in Haviriv was revealing - everybody appeared to have fought and died everywhere for everyone.

The Rivet · May 2, 2017

ManOfSussex said:
I disagree, but I'm not getting into an argument with you over this. WW2 could have been avoided in 1938, just like a decisive victory at Jutland would have ended the first war early.

I lost a Great Uncle in WWII who's buried in Normandy and who's grave I've been honoured to visit twice in my life, including seeing my Dad cry at the gravestone at the realisation it could have been his Father, my Grandad, who served at the same time as his Uncle/brother as they were roughly the same age. I know your opinion on The EU and Brexit differs from mine, I'm sure you can see why these differences of opinion cause disagreement. I respect your Uncle and my Great Uncle's sacrifice for us to have that disagreement and am grateful to both of them, although I never knew them, that we are able to have those disagreements.

No. As my previous post this was NOT possible. Ideologically desirable but just not possible.

The Rivet · May 2, 2017

ManOfSussex said:
I'll take that as a compliment and declare that my opinion is also based on having an ex-Czech girlfriend, of Slovakian heritage, and therefore my opinion is based on people living in Havirov in the east of the modern day Czech Republic who I met, spoke to and who actually remember the Wehrmacht advance east, as my ex-girlfriends granddaughter actually did. A war cemetery in the Catholic Church in Haviriv was revealing - everybody appeared to have fought and died everywhere for everyone.

The did die in masses but not when Germany took over the sudetenland.

ManOfSussex · May 2, 2017

The Rivet said:
No. As my previous post this was NOT possible.

As per my previous post, I say it was, as I explained. Not a definitive account by any means, but possible. A front on The French-German border backed by the means we had - history could have been altered in 1938 rather than nodding through Munich and Czechoslovakia. Back then we still had a role in the world and a Navy, but keeping Kenya British for white people was more important - I get it - I lived in Botswana, so I know how it worked.

ManOfSussex · May 2, 2017

The Rivet said:
The did die in masses but not when Germany took over the sudetenland.

I know. We let them though - a price worth paying?

The Rivet · May 2, 2017

ManOfSussex said:
I know. We let them though - a price worth paying?

I'm not saying that it was a price worth paying but something we just could not arrange or do at that time without bases in France with a large ground force. If that was on the French/German border it would have been slaughtered when you consider the history. The BEF barely managed to get out at Dunkirk.

Buzzer · May 2, 2017

ManOfSussex said:
I'm of the historical train of thought that an assertive military action, started upon the French/German border, backed by The Royal Navy at sea and The RAF in the air and aided not only by France but by the Czechoslovakian's Slavic brethren in The Soviet Union who would have come to their aid and The Czechoslovakian's own quite sophisticated defence system in 1938 within their own territorial borders prior to them getting shafted at Munich, which were mostly in The Sudetenland territory, would have stopped Hitler in his tracks. We didn't do it though. We stayed out - It was but a quarrel in a far away country between people of whom we know nothing remember - The Conservative and Unionist Party said so. Not worth a drop of British blood and The Americans were against it too, plus we had a comprehensive free trade deal with India then as we were bleeding it dry through empire, so diplomacy in the continent with our near neighbours wasn't needed.

I think war would still have been inevitable given Stalin's voracious appetite to extend the Soviet Empire westward. Your alternative scenario does open up the question of whether the Germans and British would have fought as allies.

ManOfSussex · May 2, 2017

The Rivet said:
I'm not saying that it was a price worth paying but something we just could not arrange or do at that time without bases in France with a large ground force. If that was on the French/German border it would have been slaughtered when you consider the history. The BEF barely managed to get out at Dunkirk.

We didn't need to start much in 1938 on the French/German border or or in the north sea. A single front on either backed by Soviet disapproval that would have come at Berlin's action's,with Royal and French Naval action...........We didn't though. We didn't and we achieved such greatness at Singapore and everywhere after instead.

Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊

General Election 2017

New member

New member

We wunt be druv

We wunt be druv

Well-known member

We wunt be druv

Well-known member

Well-known member

Attachments

Well-known member

Well-known member

We wunt be druv

Well-known member

We wunt be druv

Well-known member

Well-known member

We wunt be druv

We wunt be druv

Well-known member

Languidly Clinical

We wunt be druv

Share this page