General Election 2017

ManOfSussex · May 5, 2017

Chicken Run said:
Unfortunately all of the above was apparent in 2007 minus the food banks of course, what was the government of the time doing about them I wonder?

The homelessness here wasn't as bad then and has increased in recent years, in my opinion. The street drinking has regressed too and is getting back to like what is was in the early 1990's.

I don't see any of it being solved anytime soon.

pb21 · May 5, 2017

The Rivet said:
Andrew Neather

Interestingly he also said (having just done a quick google search), post these claims:

"There was no plot... Multiculturalism was not the primary point of the report or the speech. The main goal was to allow in more migrant workers at a point when – hard as it is to imagine now – the booming economy was running up against skills shortages"

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/oct/26/labour-immigration-plot-andrew-neather

So I'm still wondering where this labour 'Miliband jetset' politician is, saying they encouraged mass uncontrolled immigration to put one over racists.

ManOfSussex · May 5, 2017

Only a few seats left to be declared in Kent and it looks like UKIP have totally been wiped off the map there, and they were the opposition. The Swanscombe & Greenhithe Residents' Association have won though.

The Rivet · May 5, 2017

pb21 said:
Interestingly he also said (having just done a quick google search), post these claims:

"There was no plot... Multiculturalism was not the primary point of the report or the speech. The main goal was to allow in more migrant workers at a point when – hard as it is to imagine now – the booming economy was running up against skills shortages"

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/oct/26/labour-immigration-plot-andrew-neather

So I'm still wondering where this labour 'Miliband jetset' politician is, saying they encouraged mass uncontrolled immigration to put one over racists.

If you like we could go on like this for hours!

The strongest evidence for conspiracy comes from one of Labour’s own. Andrew Neather, a previously unheard-of speechwriter for Blair, Straw and Blunkett, popped up with an article in the Evening Standard in October 2009 which gave the game away.

Immigration, he wrote, ‘didn’t just happen; the deliberate policy of Ministers from late 2000…was to open up the UK to mass immigration’.

He was at the heart of policy in September 2001, drafting the landmark speech by the then Immigration Minister Barbara Roche, and he reported ‘coming away from some discussions with the clear sense that the policy was intended - even if this wasn’t its main purpose - to rub the Right’s nose in diversity and render their arguments out of date’.

That seemed, even to him, a manoeuvre too far.

The result is now plain for all to see. Even Blair’s favourite think tank, the Institute for Public Policy Research (IPPR), commented recently: ‘It is no exaggeration to say that immigration under New Labour has changed the face of the country.’

It is not hard to see why Labour’s own apparatchiks supported the policy. Provided that the white working class didn’t cotton on, there were votes in it.

Have a good day, carry on digging.

Hastings gull · May 5, 2017

ManOfSussex said:
Hastings gull said:

You seem arrogant, so perhaps you could answer it for me because I don't know anymore than the Labour Party or The SNP does.

Click to expand...

Well if you don't know, as you say, then why are you claiming that the "world has gone mad" when they vote for someone you don't like? YOU said it, don't forget!

pb21 · May 5, 2017

The Rivet said:
If you like we could go on like this for hours!

The strongest evidence for conspiracy comes from one of Labour’s own. Andrew Neather, a previously unheard-of speechwriter for Blair, Straw and Blunkett, popped up with an article in the Evening Standard in October 2009 which gave the game away.

Immigration, he wrote, ‘didn’t just happen; the deliberate policy of Ministers from late 2000…was to open up the UK to mass immigration’.

He was at the heart of policy in September 2001, drafting the landmark speech by the then Immigration Minister Barbara Roche, and he reported ‘coming away from some discussions with the clear sense that the policy was intended - even if this wasn’t its main purpose - to rub the Right’s nose in diversity and render their arguments out of date’.

That seemed, even to him, a manoeuvre too far.

The result is now plain for all to see. Even Blair’s favourite think tank, the Institute for Public Policy Research (IPPR), commented recently: ‘It is no exaggeration to say that immigration under New Labour has changed the face of the country.’

It is not hard to see why Labour’s own apparatchiks supported the policy. Provided that the white working class didn’t cotton on, there were votes in it.

Have a good day, carry on digging.

I'm having a great day thanks, particularly on this thread!

Have a good day, carry on trying to back up the claim that a Miliband jetset politician said that labour encouraged mass uncontrolled immigration to put one over racists.

The Rivet · May 5, 2017

pb21 said:
I'm having a great day thanks, particularly on this thread!

Have a good day, carry on trying to back up the claim that a labour politician said that labour encouraged mass uncontrolled immigration to put one over racists.

I don't need to. Labour are already irrelevant without my adding to it! :yawn:

Dick Swiveller · May 5, 2017

Hastings gull said:
Now is this genuine principle or simply because you didn't get the result you wanted? The reality is that if there is a huge national swing, local reps tend to suffer, which is a pity if they are otherwise excellent people, but don't forget -it cuts both ways. Labour gained in 1997 and the Tories now.

This is "shaved monkey in a blue rosette gets in" territory but I object to getting someone on the political ladder just because they can. You are the one with a party agenda - I have voted for the 4 major parties that aren't UKIP in my lifetime. I am saddened that my county council representative is a vineyard owner from 15 miles away. How does that qualify him to do the best for my part of town? My MP stood in her native Birmingham in 2010, lost, so was flown in to Wealden for a guaranteed win. All parties do it where they have safe seats but it makes a mockery of the whole thing for me. These are my local representatives - not candidates on the Apprentice trying to claw their way to the top.

Hastings gull · May 5, 2017

pb21 said:
I'm having a great day thanks, particularly on this thread!

Have a good day, carry on trying to back up the claim that a Miliband jetset politician said that labour encouraged mass uncontrolled immigration to put one over racists.

Ok, it was someone who knew what labour politicians were up to -does that make you happier arguing over something that really was beside the point, as there was nothing else for you to grasp.

pb21 · May 5, 2017

Hastings gull said:
Ok, it was someone who knew what labour politicians were up to -does that make you happier arguing over something that really was beside the point, as there was nothing else for you to grasp.

Ok so where is someone who new what labour politicians were up to saying that labour encouraged mass uncontrolled immigration to put one over racists?

ManOfSussex · May 5, 2017

Hastings gull said:
ManOfSussex said:

Well if you don't know, as you say, then why are you claiming that the "world has gone mad" when they vote for someone you don't like? YOU said it, don't forget!

Click to expand...

Yes, I did - It's simply a result I would never have expected to have seen 20 years ago or 30 years ago, that's all. I wasn't being arrogant in the slightest or using it because people have voted for someone I don't like - I used that phrase at full time after The Sheffield Wednesday game in January for example.

Hastings gull · May 5, 2017

Dick Swiveller said:
This is "shaved monkey in a blue rosette gets in" territory but I object to getting someone on the political ladder just because they can. You are the one with a party agenda - I have voted for the 4 major parties that aren't UKIP in my lifetime. I am saddened that my county council representative is a vineyard owner from 15 miles away. How does that qualify him to do the best for my part of town? My MP stood in her native Birmingham in 2010, lost, so was flown in to Wealden for a guaranteed win. All parties do it where they have safe seats but it makes a mockery of the whole thing for me. These are my local representatives - not candidates on the Apprentice trying to claw their way to the top.

I make no secret of my preference for the Tories, but you might be interested to know that locally, I vote for the Labour candidate, as he is clearly the most active and is fully deservous of my vote. And yes, political parties do tend to parachute in their favourites, which to the locals is understandably frustrating. So we agree that all parties do it and part the best of friends!

Titanic · May 5, 2017

Derbyshire... LABOUR lose 19 seats to the TORIES who now have control of the council with a MAJORITY of 10.

Derbyshire?!

Hastings gull · May 5, 2017

ManOfSussex said:
Hastings gull said:

Yes, I did - It's simply a result I would never have expected to have seen 20 years ago or 30 years ago, that's all. I wasn't being arrogant in the slightest or using it because people have voted for someone I don't like - I used that phrase at full time after The Sheffield Wednesday game in January for example.

Click to expand...

But this excuse is not quite the same, as what you wrote, is it? You might not have expected the result, and I am sure that your surprise was shared by thousands, but that doesn't mean that the world has gone mad. That brings a rather different meaning, doesn't it? Anyway, thanks for the reply.

Hastings gull · May 5, 2017

pb21 said:
Ok so where is someone who new what labour politicians were up to saying that labour encouraged mass uncontrolled immigration to put one over racists?

You have had several replies giving you chapter and verse -what is wrong with you?

ManOfSussex · May 5, 2017

Hastings gull said:
ManOfSussex said:

But this excuse is not quite the same, as what you wrote, is it? You might not have expected the result, and I am sure that your surprise was shared by thousands, but that doesn't mean that the world has gone mad. That brings a rather different meaning, doesn't it? Anyway, thanks for the reply.

Click to expand...

It's just a turn of phrase used when surprised, I'm sure you've heard it lots of times, I certainly have. Anyway thanks for your reply too and you have lovely day now.

Guinness Boy · May 5, 2017

Soulman said:
What about the 13 years that Labour were ruining/running the country

Well the Tories have had 7 years and increased net migration in that time despite setting targets

Hastings gull said:
Don't give me that. This happened several years ago and the quote, which has now been made available, was from someone whose name would not have been remembered by me or indeed anyone, but at least you can now see what I was talking about.

But hang on, you gave it as a cast iron reason why "folk" would be angry, Turns out it's a quote from 2009 in the Torygraph by someone no one on this board would recognise if they were shopping next to them in Waitrose.

In any case, you're both missing the point. Immigration has gone up under the Tories so are they deliberately annoying racists or are they incompetent?

Hastings gull · May 5, 2017

Guinness Boy said:
Well the Tories have had 7 years and increased net migration in that time despite setting targets

But hang on, you gave it as a cast iron reason why "folk" would be angry, Turns out it's a quote from 2009 in the Torygraph by someone no one on this board would recognise if they were shopping next to them in Waitrose.

In any case, you're both missing the point. Immigration has gone up under the Tories so are they deliberately annoying racists or are they incompetent?

Whilst that is no doubt true, much of this is of course due to the fact that we cannot stop immigration due to our membership of the EU, as you know full well, hence the majority vote to leave this organisation, or at least one of the reasons. The point is that the whistle-blower wrote that a deliberate and calculated decision was taken so as to wind up those who would oppose such a move, which brings into the equation a worrying element.

ManOfSussex · May 5, 2017

Hastings gull said:
locally, I vote for the Labour candidate, as he is clearly the most active and is fully deservous of my vote. And yes, political parties do tend to parachute in their favourites, which to the locals is understandably frustrating.

On that I can only agree with you wholeheartedly as I'll be doing exactly the same now.

GT49er · May 5, 2017

pb21 said:
No I'm not.

Labour encouraging mass immigration to make the UK more multicultural (possibly to increase Labour's chances of victory in elections too) is one thing.

Labour encouraging mass uncontrolled immigration to put one over racists is another. The fact one ex-adviser (quite possible an ex-adviser with an axe to grind writing in the Telegraph) sensed that the policy was intended – even if this wasn't its main purpose – to rub the Right's nose in diversity, doesn't lend much if any credence to the claim!

Its quite frankly ludicrous and absurd to think it was.

Still waiting for this Labour politician that said this though. If you have that source I will stop digging.

Oh dear oh dear! I pity your desperation! A politician doesn't have to be an MP or a minister - policy advisers are also politicians, and the relevant source has been quoted. Even if you choose to pretend otherwise.

Would like to borrow my spare spade?

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