General Election 2017

studio150 · May 28, 2017

GT49er said:
You can't trust the PLP not to overturn the democratic vote; that, sadly, is the point. It's why I can't vote Labour, in spite of their campaign being light years better than the Tories, until we're safely and irrevocably out of the EU. The PLP is just waiting for its chance to stage a coup to oust Corbyn - if they were in government at the time that would give them the opportunity to welch on Brexit as well, which is what they'd want to do - the PLP is as far up the EU's arse as Farron and the Greens.

As opposed to leaving without a deal and facing tariffs, being poorer but joyously not being under the control of the EU. And domestically the NHS continuing to be underfunded, more cuts to the Police, more cuts and means testing to pensioners, the long term sick.............

Pretty pink fairy · May 28, 2017

Arundel_Seagull said:
Where is the evidence the Tories can? Very vague Brexit plan (nearly a year on) and the decrease in Immigration is nowhere near the targets originally set out by them.

TM and many close to her are closet remainers, just remember that! UKIP are practically dead in the water and with another potential 6 years of the Tories I wouldn't bank on anything close to the hard Brexit that is being promised!

Still clinging on to freedom of movement :facepalm:

regards
DR

Jim D · May 28, 2017

Arundel_Seagull said:
Where is the evidence the Tories can? Very vague Brexit plan (nearly a year on) and the decrease in Immigration is nowhere near the targets originally set out by them.

TM and many close to her are closet remainers, just remember that! UKIP are practically dead in the water and with another potential 6 years of the Tories I wouldn't bank on anything close to the hard Brexit that is being promised!

The big difference is that TMs team are all firm leavers and JCs team are all firm remainers. If it comes to a crisis I know that the Tories will see it through for us. I can't see anything like that from the Labour team. In fact I have no faith at all in Starmer's commitment to Brexit, and I think he would ditch it at the first opportunity.

bWize · May 28, 2017

Jim D said:
The big difference is that TMs team are all firm leavers and JCs team are all firm remainers. If it comes to a crisis I know that the Tories will see it through for us. I can't see anything like that from the Labour team. In fact I have no faith at all in Starmer's commitment to Brexit, and I think he would ditch it at the first opportunity.

Sorry but that is absolute bollocks! Theresa May and more than half the Tory party voted to remain! Jeremy Corbyn was luke warm at best and was the one who wanted A50 triggered straight away!

Do you just like making this shit up?

Jim D · May 28, 2017

Arundel_Seagull said:
Sorry but that is absolute bollocks! Theresa May and more than half the Tory party voted to remain! Jeremy Corbyn was luke warm at best and was the one who wanted A50 triggered straight away!

Do you just like making this shit up?

Lots of Tories supported remain but almost all of the Labour party did. When TM became leader she quite sensibly appointed many of the 'leave' team into the Brexit positions and have supported them. The opposition Brexit team are all from the remain side and, no matter what you might say, I cannot have any confidence in their commitment to Brexit or their ability to get anything like a reasonable deal for the UK. You seem quite annoyed that your arguments are being opposed - do you have anger management issues?

Dick Head · May 28, 2017

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/2601875.stm

bWize · May 28, 2017

Jim D said:
do you have anger management issues?

Anger? lol!

You couldn't be further the truth... I just like to correct the less informed

Jim D · May 28, 2017

Arundel_Seagull said:
.... I just like to correct the less informed

That's strange, I thought I was correcting you.

JC Footy Genius · May 28, 2017

Jim D said:
The big difference is that TMs team are all firm leavers and JCs team are all firm remainers. If it comes to a crisis I know that the Tories will see it through for us. I can't see anything like that from the Labour team. In fact I have no faith at all in Starmer's commitment to Brexit, and I think he would ditch it at the first opportunity.

The Conservatives are the only credible option. They have set out clear principles, have firm Leavers in key positions and more importantly rowing back on them would cause a civil war in the party.

No idea what Labours position is .. it changes so often with vague notions and Corbyn refusing to say we would leave if we couldn't get a deal etc

JC Footy Genius · May 28, 2017

Arundel_Seagull said:
Anger? lol!

You couldn't be further the truth... I just like to correct the less informed

Is that why you had to correct your own post .. which initially said immigration had gone up?

glasfryn · May 28, 2017

Dick Head said:
View attachment 85826

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/2601875.stm

strange I could be wrong but I did'nt see any mention of Mr Corbyn
wonder if Willy gave them tea and biscuits

studio150 · May 28, 2017

Jim D said:
The opposition Brexit team are all from the remain side and, no matter what you might say, I cannot have any confidence in their commitment to Brexit or their ability to get anything like a reasonable deal for the UK.

So how do the Tories get a reasonable deal, given Mrs May has stated she is prepared to walk away with no deal.

So 9th June Mrs May says to the EU we want a free trade deal and we're not paying any exit fee
EU say £50bn to leave and no free trade deal without free movement
Mrs May responds with but I have a strong and stable government with a large majority you must give us want we want
EU we stand by our first offer
Mrs May right we're leaving with no deal, bye bye

Wow what a reasonable deal for the UK

studio150 · May 28, 2017

JC Footy Genius said:
The Conservatives are the only credible option. They have set out clear principles, have firm Leavers in key positions and more importantly rowing back on them would cause a civil war in the party.

No idea what Labours position is .. it changes so often with vague notions and Corbyn refusing to say we would leave if we couldn't get a deal etc

Leave with no deal, brilliant principle

JC Footy Genius · May 28, 2017

studio150 said:
Leave with no deal, brilliant principle

No deal is better than a bad deal, brilliant principle.

9th June Mrs May says to the EU we want a free trade deal and we're prepared to meet our financial obligations but the figure must also take account of EU assets and rebates.

Negotiations commence ...

studio150 · May 28, 2017

JC Footy Genius said:
No deal is better than a bad deal, brilliant principle.

9th June Mrs May says to the EU we want a free trade deal and we're prepared to meet our financial obligations but the figure must also take account of EU assets and rebates.

No deal is a bad deal

EU respond with no, £50bn already takes into account assets and rebates

Jim D · May 28, 2017

studio150 said:
So how do the Tories get a reasonable deal, given Mrs May has stated she is prepared to walk away with no deal.

So 9th June Mrs May says to the EU we want a free trade deal and we're not paying any exit fee
EU say £50bn to leave and no free trade deal without free movement
Mrs May responds with but I have a strong and stable government with a large majority you must give us want we want
EU we stand by our first offer
Mrs May right we're leaving with no deal, bye bye

Wow what a reasonable deal for the UK

The Brexit team will enter into the negotiations with the EU and will expect to get the best deal possible for the UK. These negotiations could take a very long time and will involve a great deal of give and take on both sides. If the EU negotiators don't want to give anything but just want to take (including a €50billion exit fee - your figure) then I doubt that anyone in the country would say we should do that deal - or do you think that we should agree to any deal the EU put to us?

JC Footy Genius · May 28, 2017

studio150 said:
No deal is a bad deal

EU respond with no, £50bn already takes into account assets and rebates

Not if the alternative is caving into most of the EU demands.

Does it ..care to show your workings?

Jim D · May 28, 2017

JC Footy Genius said:
Not if the alternative is caving into most of the EU demands.

Does it ..care to show your workings?

The main thing with negotiations is that it's two or more groups trying to get what they need or want. If you want to get £500 for your car you would probably ask for £600 and expect to agree to a reduction. On the other hand, if you were hoping to buy a car priced at £600 for £500 and the seller wouldn't budge you would probably consider walking away and looking elsewhere. It'll be a similar principle with EU negotiations - except the figures would be in billions. Somewhere in the process there would be a point that both sides would want to get to. However, these points would almost certainly not be the same (or negotiations would be over very quickly). It's at this time that we start on the 'give and take' and try to negotiate a position that we could both live with. If this isn't possible then we would need to decide what next, and this could include walking away.

JC Footy Genius · May 28, 2017

Jim D said:
The main thing with negotiations is that it's two or more groups trying to get what they need or want. If you want to get £500 for your car you would probably ask for £600 and expect to agree to a reduction. On the other hand, if you were hoping to buy a car priced at £600 for £500 and the seller wouldn't budge you would probably consider walking away and looking elsewhere. It'll be a similar principle with EU negotiations - except the figures would be in billions. Somewhere in the process there would be a point that both sides would want to get to. However, these points would almost certainly not be the same (or negotiations would be over very quickly). It's at this time that we start on the 'give and take' and try to negotiate a position that we could both live with. If this isn't possible then we would need to decide what next, and this could include walking away.

A good summary. I was quite hopeful we would come to a mutually beneficial deal as it is in all our economic and political interests to do so. But some of the noises coming out of Brussels have been quite alarming, hopefully it's just initial negotiation posturing. Saying that I think it's vital the EU side realise we really are prepared to walk away if neccassery.

One Love · May 28, 2017

JC Footy Genius said:
A good summary. I was quite hopeful we would come to a mutually beneficial deal as it is in all our economic and political interests to do so. But some of the noises coming out of Brussels have been quite alarming, hopefully it's just initial negotiation posturing. Saying that I think it's vital the EU side realise we really are prepared to walk away if neccassery.

The problem has always been that the powers that be within the EU have as their number one priority self preservation. That means making sure we come out of the decision to leave, very badly. That way, other countries think twice about doing the same.

A good deal for the EU is a distant second in priority.

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