Is it PotG?
Thrifty non-licker
Lawks a lordy, soon everyday words and phrases such as "Long time, no see", "Uppity", "Sold Down the River" and "No Can Do" will be analysed, root meanings offered and subsquently banned too.
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General Election 2017
- Thread starter Giraffe
- Start date
Er, never?
mikeyjh
Well-known member
Yeah, but not to that extreme. Everything we say and do is on a spectrum, that one is right out there.
For a politician, who should be acutely aware of what they're saying and the potential impact, you're probably right. If my recently-departed 95 year-old grandmother said it, I wouldn't have batted much of an eyelid.......
Error.
Ernest
Stupid IDIOT
Typical Tory response to try and deflect from the original crime . Hopefully she will be sacked along with Redwood and Cash
Wrong-Direction
Well-known member
- Mar 10, 2013
- 13,427
How's it going over here, country still up the swanny?
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Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk
Stato
Well-known member
- Dec 21, 2011
- 6,588
Context is always important. In the introduction to his book "It's A PC World" Edward Stourton writes about a retired General using the same phrase when Stourton was interviewing him about Iraq on the 'Today Programme' about a decade ago. He explains his shock at the interviewee's use of the phrase, but states that he didn't think that the former General was a racist, saying that:
"He had, I calculated, simply forgotten himself in the odd intimacy of a radio interview over the telephone and used an expression which - however offensive it may sound today - had once been relatively commonplace in certain circles, military ones undoubtedly included."
It could be argued that a white middle class male like Stourton may more easily excuse or forgive the General's use of the phrase, having never himself been on the receiving end of the word. However, Stourton raises the example in a comparison with an outright bigoted statement made to him by the Queen Mother some years earlier and suggests that his book seeks to 'navigate the waters' between the two. Stourton's point is also based on fact. The phrase was commonplace in certain circles historically and may have been part of the vocabulary of a retired General who used it without first considering the impact of his choice of metaphor.
The context of Anne Marie Morris's use of the phrase is slightly different. She is not a retired General. She is a politician. A politician who has previously worked in marketing and law. As a careful choice of language is key to her current and both of her previous careers, perhaps it is less forgivable for her to be making the same mistake a decade later, a decade that she has spent the majority of as an MP. Putting aside the further complexity caused by her position as somebody elected to represent a community of people, it could be argued that she made the error in the same way that Stourton interpreted the General to have done. She used a racist term, but did not intend to be racist.
This, to me, is actually more worrying. If her slip is to be considered in the same light, we would essentially be saying that she cannot be held too accountable for using racist language, because she has moved in circles where racist language is commonplace. Those circles seem to involve Conservative Associations and gatherings of Conservative Party representatives and members. The response from those who witnessed it live also seems to have been markedly different to that that has been forthcoming now that the facts are publicised. This could suggest that she has been sanctioned, not because she is an elected official who has failed to show an understanding of why certain language can hurt, or more importantly, create barriers to equal opportunity, but instead because of the embarrassment that the publicity has caused her party.
Or as everyone's favourite liberal elite, Guardian reading funnyman Stewart Lee, put it: "If political correctness has achieved one thing, it's to make the Conservative Party cloak its inherent racism behind more creative language."
"He had, I calculated, simply forgotten himself in the odd intimacy of a radio interview over the telephone and used an expression which - however offensive it may sound today - had once been relatively commonplace in certain circles, military ones undoubtedly included."
It could be argued that a white middle class male like Stourton may more easily excuse or forgive the General's use of the phrase, having never himself been on the receiving end of the word. However, Stourton raises the example in a comparison with an outright bigoted statement made to him by the Queen Mother some years earlier and suggests that his book seeks to 'navigate the waters' between the two. Stourton's point is also based on fact. The phrase was commonplace in certain circles historically and may have been part of the vocabulary of a retired General who used it without first considering the impact of his choice of metaphor.
The context of Anne Marie Morris's use of the phrase is slightly different. She is not a retired General. She is a politician. A politician who has previously worked in marketing and law. As a careful choice of language is key to her current and both of her previous careers, perhaps it is less forgivable for her to be making the same mistake a decade later, a decade that she has spent the majority of as an MP. Putting aside the further complexity caused by her position as somebody elected to represent a community of people, it could be argued that she made the error in the same way that Stourton interpreted the General to have done. She used a racist term, but did not intend to be racist.
This, to me, is actually more worrying. If her slip is to be considered in the same light, we would essentially be saying that she cannot be held too accountable for using racist language, because she has moved in circles where racist language is commonplace. Those circles seem to involve Conservative Associations and gatherings of Conservative Party representatives and members. The response from those who witnessed it live also seems to have been markedly different to that that has been forthcoming now that the facts are publicised. This could suggest that she has been sanctioned, not because she is an elected official who has failed to show an understanding of why certain language can hurt, or more importantly, create barriers to equal opportunity, but instead because of the embarrassment that the publicity has caused her party.
Or as everyone's favourite liberal elite, Guardian reading funnyman Stewart Lee, put it: "If political correctness has achieved one thing, it's to make the Conservative Party cloak its inherent racism behind more creative language."
mikeyjh
Well-known member
Certainly - I was at our neighbours, 82 year old said something inappropriate but yeah there's a time to try and change people's outlook!
Pavilionaire
Well-known member
- Jul 7, 2003
- 30,590
I agree with this. To use the phrase is bad enough, but to use it incorrectly to describe something that is obvious as something that is concealed makes her look a fool on two counts.
Has she resigned from parliament yet?
Yes - that.
'Fly in the ointment' would have worked better, and avoided all the fuss.
Pavilionaire
Well-known member
- Jul 7, 2003
- 30,590
No Brexit deal a 'fly in the ointment', i.e. a minor irritation that is spoiling something positive or enjoyable? I think not.
What this shows is that we need a new phrase to replace 'n*****r in the woodpile' - maybe 'combustible cladding on the tower block'?
Ernest
Stupid IDIOT
And Redwood and Cash too should be sacked for not apologising there and then
Couldn't agree more.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,315
should MPs always apologise for anything insulting or offensive said in their presence, or resign? i imagine that would be a problem for a lot of MPs. be careful with those stones.
If I was in a position where a friend or colleague acted inappropriately and offended people I'd certainly apologise. It's simply the decent thing to do.
Ernest
Stupid IDIOT
When you hear offensive racist language and do nothing you are unfit to hold public office
What about death threats?
JC Footy Genius
Bringer of TRUTH
- Jun 9, 2015
- 10,568
What about an MP currently in a very prominent position who called for Insurrection against the democratically elected government?
What about an MP supporting the view that the Jewish State should be moved to the US?
Or a person who says our two main political parties are controlled by Israel?