Term time Dad loses in the Supreme Court

sussex_guy2k2 said:

I'm an ex teacher, so when weighing in I am slightly biased, but I believe the decision to be 100% correct.

Yes, there is an argument that children need experiences out of the classroom (although a trip to Florida isn't exactly educational), but this ruling isn't stopping people taking their children out, it is just asking them to pay a fine (and a tiny one at that) for the right to have a cheaper holiday. This seems fair to me.

In regards to whether taking your children out of school during term time has a negative effect on thei education, then the answer is emphatically yes, for 99% of students. The reason for this is that most students simply don't have the drive or wherewithal to catch up on their missed work. This often has many knock on effects down the line in terms of grades and progress.

However, the biggest reason why it's the correct decision is actually a legal rule. It would open the floodgates to parents to take their children out of school on a whim, with no limit to when or how often children could be taken from school without repercussion. It is often bad enough if one child misses a week or two but if you suddenly have 4, 5 or 6 doing it, then the added workload on a teacher, plus the increased stress on the pupils, added to the worsening behaviour as children suffer from increased levels of confusion, would simply not be manageable in most classroom situations, particularly as resources at most schools are already stretched to breaking point (and only getting worse!).

Click to expand...

Wilko said:

Mate, anyone that still thinks an inset day is a day off for teachers is a bit dim to be honest. I will have to remind anyone that works in business that any meetings they have are days off and should be carried out in their own personal holidays.

Click to expand...

Iggle Piggle said:

No wonder kids are useless at Maths if this is the kind of stats we are teaching them. 6 weeks in the summer (30 working days), 2 weeks at Easter (8 excluding bank holidays) and Christmas (7) plus 3 half terms (14) is nearer 60 than 40 accepting that you may be over the summer to give out A-level results or the like depending on what age you are teaching. One of my mates is a teacher and had a training day on Cheltenham Gold cup day where he appeared for the 1st race. I've no doubt teachers work hard but spare us the 40 days holiday and working till midnight checking spelling gubbins. Similarly, If you also believe an office job is 9-5 with a 2 hour lunch and luzzing paper aeroplanes in the afternoons - That was the 1980's. Most Corporate companies are working on tight margins which means those of us left here after countless rounds of redundancies are working their tits off.

With regards to this case, there should be an ability to use discretion rather than binary rules. Parents at our school took their kid out of school for one day to go to Lapland. They were fined whilst the rest of the class sat and watched Elf.

Click to expand...

beorhthelm said:

~60 average? really? that means many thousands doing 70-80 to offset the thousands doing 40-50, or maybe those statistics are flawed.

Click to expand...

Wilko said:

No, I did not say that. We have longer holidays but the average working days and work outside of school is much longer than many other jobs. If I compare my job working in an office to teaching for example:

Office job- 9 to 5 with a lunch break, no work outside of those hours. Average 7 hours a day. 25 days holiday a year

Teaching job - 7-6 with a 30 min lunchbreak. Additional duties. Evening marking, planning and preparation. Average 10-12 hours a day. 40 days holiday a year.

If I compare the two jobs then teaching is the far more demanding in terms of man hours over the course of the year. However, we are rewarded with longer holidays which I like so that is fair enough.

If you want an impartial opinion then ask any posters on here that are married to or in a relationship with a teacher to give you an honest answer to the amount of hours they put it.

Click to expand...

sussex_guy2k2 said:

I'm an ex teacher, so when weighing in I am slightly biased, but I believe the decision to be 100% correct.

Yes, there is an argument that children need experiences out of the classroom (although a trip to Florida isn't exactly educational), but this ruling isn't stopping people taking their children out, it is just asking them to pay a fine (and a tiny one at that) for the right to have a cheaper holiday. This seems fair to me.

In regards to whether taking your children out of school during term time has a negative effect on thei education, then the answer is emphatically yes, for 99% of students. The reason for this is that most students simply don't have the drive or wherewithal to catch up on their missed work. This often has many knock on effects down the line in terms of grades and progress.

However, the biggest reason why it's the correct decision is actually a legal rule. It would open the floodgates to parents to take their children out of school on a whim, with no limit to when or how often children could be taken from school without repercussion. It is often bad enough if one child misses a week or two but if you suddenly have 4, 5 or 6 doing it, then the added workload on a teacher, plus the increased stress on the pupils, added to the worsening behaviour as children suffer from increased levels of confusion, would simply not be manageable in most classroom situations, particularly as resources at most schools are already stretched to breaking point (and only getting worse!).

Click to expand...

Wilko said:

1. How do you know what hours I did in an office job. It was 9-5 with a 40 minute lunch

Click to expand...

The CHILDREN get 12 weeks holiday a year

Click to expand...

Wilko said:

Mate, anyone that still thinks an inset day is a day off for teachers is a bit dim to be honest. I will have to remind anyone that works in business that any meetings they have are days off and should be carried out in their own personal holidays.

Click to expand...

Bold Seagull said:

Well, clearly the basis of your argument is from a couple of people you know who are teachers. You're hardly in a position to question the validity of a professionally prepared set of statistics.

Click to expand...

father_and_son said:

An office job with a salary commensurate to a teacher's would not be 9-5.

I work from 8 to (at least) 6, I eat at my desk, I do paperwork evenings and weekends as the business requires, and have only recently stopped having to commute to London adding another 3 hours to my working day (I earned a lot more in London though).


This particular case was a terrible example because of the nature of the holiday. It is of huge benefit to a child to experience differing cultures, languages and peoples. Travelling outside of Europe/USA often adds an additional appreciation of how easy we have things here compared to the global average.
Some parents do have the child's best interests at heart when they chose to take holidays in term time.


Until lat year we had one at Brighton College and one at Hove Park and there were very few weeks during the year when they were both off school. Normally this was 1 week at Easter, 10 days at Christmas and 3/4 weeks in the summer. This made anything but the most basic family holidays almost unaffordable for us.

Click to expand...

Publius Ovidius said:

in you opinion as an ex-schools teacher ( there are a lot of teh usual suspects spouting on here) do you believe that a 4 year old in reception that is taken out of school for 1 week will ruin their chances of going to University or gaining good educational qualifications? I say that as the ex inspector of schools head on Breakfast time suggested that by taking children out of school, whatever their age will lead them to have a shite life

Click to expand...

Triggaaar said:

I just don't buy it, sorry

Click to expand...

lost in london said:

What annoys me most is that schools shut on a whim and take teaching days away from children when it suits them without any regard to inconvenience to parents. Roles are reversed and parents get fined.

As an example, my kids' school recently had to put two classes in temporary classrooms whilst building works were carried out. Rather than get the teachers to give up two days of their enormous holidays to get the rooms ready, the school shut down entirely for two days. A whole school of parents having to sort out two days childcare. We've got a whole week shutdown in September whilst they move back into the new building. There's then a week in June where there are two inset days and a sports day in one week, plus two days of 'sport' for the remainder of the week. If that isn't an invitation to take your kids out and go on a cheaper holiday when they're learning sod all I don't know what is.

Click to expand...

mothy said:

It won't put me off. £240 fine is peanuts. Don't worry. I doubt you'll be holidaying where I am

Click to expand...

portlock seagull said:

I don't think anyone would disagree, if pushed and honest, with what you're saying. I think it's more the chaos and slippery slope angle at stake here 'on the whole', we just can't entertain that as a nation. Nor should we. Go to school, sit down and tow the line even if sometimes it sucks. Because life does too, so this is all a lesson in itself ironically isn't it?!

Click to expand...

Wilko said:

Are you a ****ing idiot? Why are you working the holiday of a teacher based on what the children get?

As for MY office job, I am telling you what the hours were. I spent the majority of the day going for coffee breaks and surfing the internet too.

Tell me your job and let me have a go at telling you what you do all day and how many hours you really do?

Click to expand...