Falklands '82

Eeyore · Apr 3, 2017

lawros left foot said:
The Argentine Skyhawks pilots were the bravest men I have ever seen, pressing home low level bombing runs, against a wall of all kinds of enemy fire, on the very edge of their planes endurance.
A mate shoot one down with an Oeriliken anti-aircraft gun, but, he always said that he killed a plane, never the pilot.

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Indeed. And your friend's recognition of this is in line with the accounts of many in the forces.

It's one of the things that upsets me about those who glorify such conflict with chest thumping nationalistic fervour. I've never met a forces person who held such views. I believe the majority of them simply do their duty and hold no grudge. That is why I hold them in such esteem.

Ive seen the footage of the low flying sorties by Argentine pilots. One wonders if some of those shells had actually exploded whether the outcome would have been, at the minimum, a more protracted conflict. I would suggest your friend is a better judge of that then me.

Frutos · Apr 3, 2017

AK74 said:
Operation Black Buck, conducted as part of the Falklands Campaign, was a very impressive logistical undertaking at the time of war.

http://www.raf.mod.uk/history/OperationBlackBuck.cfm

Indeed it was.

Rowland White's book 'Vulcan 607' gives a very thorough account of Black Buck 1 and is well worth a read for anyone with a relevant interest.

There is also a documentary that was originally on Channel 4 but can be found on YouTube which talks to several of the Vulcan and Victor crews involved in the raid.

lawros left foot · Apr 3, 2017

Believe me, nothing except a battle lost can be half so melancholy as a battle won

The First Lord Wellington, Arthur Wellesley.

Knew his stuff, did Arthur

Silk · Apr 3, 2017

Brighton Lines said:
It's more a slight at Thatcher really. The Argentine forces surrendered within the hour by all accounts. The way she announced it was so triumphant that, as a youngster, I thought we scored a victory of Somme proportions. What really happened was the Argentines didn't want to fight.

When I think of the Falklands I can't help feel compassion for the Argentine dispatch. Many of them were just conscripted youngsters who really didn't know what was coming. They stood no chance against a highly trained western army- even on 'home' ground.

A victory of Somme proportions? Do you actually know anything about the battle of the Somme?

Charlies Shinpad · Apr 3, 2017

My old Divisional officer went down with HMS Coventry
Lt Cdr Woodhead
RIP Sir
And I knew a few lads on Antrim as well as she was my first ship and Terry Bullingham was blinded by shrapnel when a bomb went through her flight deck and luckily didn't explode in the heads below as it would have taken the whole ship out as the Seaslug magazine was below that as well as my old messdeck of 3P

empire · Apr 3, 2017

Fignon's Ponytail said:
Discussing the Falklands War with a work colleague earlier as it was 35 years ago yesterday that it started, and he knew nothing about it. Fair enough, he was only just born when it started, but to not know anything about the conflict really surprised me....especially since his father was in the Marines.

Although I was only 7 at the time, I still remember the footage vividly on the news - & welcoming the ships home afterwards.

my Bro was on the invincible, horrible time if I'm honest

Eeyore · Apr 3, 2017

ManOfSussex said:
Just rejoice at that news and congratulate our forces and the marines.

That gave me food for thought on my seafront walk home. It was a Sunday night (I think). I asked myself why I remembered it so differently.

It was 35 years ago, so I guess my memory is clouded with subjective view points and other influences.

I realised why I had such a jaundiced view of Thatcher. Firstly, and I still firmly believe this, the seeming indifference of her government towards the Falklands was a catalyst for the Junta to believe that there would be no attempt to re-take it. Thus the invasion took place. Secondly, although this wasn't her doing, the language of some quarters of the tabloid media at the time seemed to me to be treating the conflict like it was a big game. I remember delivering a Sun newspaper with the headline 'Gotcha' after the sinking of an Argentine vessel.

Such headlines these days are not offered, although the underlying narrative can be similar. For me, it was right that the islands were returned to those who lived there and the right to self determination was restored. But ultimately there is no winner or loser. Everyone is punished.

Eeyore · Apr 3, 2017

Silk said:
A victory of Somme proportions? Do you actually know anything about the battle of the Somme?

Yes. I was forced to study depressing accounts many a moon ago. It was a reference to a rhetoric of magnitude rather than an actual comparison. Not a good one though.

whitelion · Apr 3, 2017

I followed the rather sketchy news whilst working in Saudi Arabia - the Brits there were quite jingoistic and took great delight in taking the piss out of the Americans over their military failures especially the Iran debacle.

Just after the conflict was over I was on vacation in Miami with an American girlfriend and she rather mischievously introduced me to an Argentinian male friend. I reluctantly shook his hand then spent a rather uncomfortable time biting my tongue and not getting into an argument with him.

A while later I found out that a Scottish friend had gone down to Portsmouth to try to sign up in order to go to the Falklands. (Must have been pissed).

Charlies Shinpad · Apr 3, 2017

Brighton Lines said:
I don't think so. That operation didn't involve deaths but a quick Argentine surrender.

My point was Thatcher making it sound like a huge military victory. That was to come.

I'm glad you include the Argentines in the casualties. I blame Thatcher a lot for this conflict happening.

And, of course, I respect those who gave their lives.

How can you blame Thatcher when Argentina invaded British territory ??
What was she meant to do?
Just pretend it didn't happen and wash her hands of the islands and all the people who lived there

wigman · Apr 3, 2017

Not Andy Naylor said:
I remember the announcement that HMS Sheffield had been hit was given at the Goldstone just after we'd beaten Wolves 2-0. It was a sobering moment as (I believe) it was the first British ship to be attacked successfully and made everyone realise that we weren't just going to stroll in and tell the Argentinians to eff off home.

What made the whole thing so tragic was how unnecessary it all was. A lot of people died or were badly injured to keep the Union Flag flying over a few rocks miles from anywhere that's home mainly to a load of sheep. (Or, as I prefer to think of it, to uphold the principle of self-determination for the Falkand Islanders.) And many more Argentinians died for nothing at all.

I also remember that announcement.
A very chilling moment indeed.

clapham_gull · Apr 3, 2017

Charlies Shinpad said:
How can you blame Thatcher when Argentina invaded British territory ??
What was she meant to do?
Just pretend it didn't happen and wash her hands of the islands and all the people who lived there

I think it has a lot to do with that government trying very hard to get rid of the place prior to the conflict.

As well as cutting back on the protection of the place against military advice.

Eeyore · Apr 3, 2017

Charlies Shinpad said:
How can you blame Thatcher when Argentina invaded British territory ??
What was she meant to do?
Just pretend it didn't happen and wash her hands of the islands and all the people who lived there

What her government could have done was not display such an indifference toward to islands. There were talks of joint sovereignty and Argentinian inferences concerning invasion were well documented. Then the UK government withdrew the country's only patrol ship from the region. The islands were left exposed at a time when the Junta was looking for popular appeal. Perhaps they thought Argentina was most likely to turn its outward aggression toward Chile, I don't know, but there were signs- and they were ignored or discounted.

Blue3 · Apr 3, 2017

Bloke I worked with at the time was an ex S agent major and he was convinced I was Argentinean and refused to speak to me while the war was on, he was mad as a box of frogs and ended up in prison on a completely unrelated matter

GoldWithFalmer · Apr 3, 2017

Cut backs to the Royal Navy and the fact we no longer had HMS Eagle or HMS Ark Royal and it's fixed wing aircraft gave the Argentine's the confidence to have a go at re-claiming the islands.

Had we had those carriers i am sure they would not had bothered.

The Falklands stretched the UK to the limit logistically and it was no mean feat sending 100 ships and 28,000 servicemen 8000 miles.

The Argentine;s did eventually surrender but only after putting up some very stern resistance in the opening stages,notably at the battle of Goose Green.

It was a little touch and go at times and the (New Carriers) will be making a return very soon.

Eeyore · Apr 3, 2017

GoldWithFalmer said:
Cut backs to the Royal Navy and the fact we no longer had HMS Eagle or HMS Ark Royal and it's fixed wing aircraft gave the Argentine's the confidence to have a go at re-claiming the islands.

Had we had those carriers i am sure they would not had bothered.

The Falklands stretched the UK to the limit logistically and it was no mean feat sending 100 ships and 28,000 servicemen 8000 miles.

The Argentine;s did eventually surrender but only after putting up some very stern resistance in the opening stages,notably at the battle of Goose Green.

It was a little touch and go at times and the Carriers will be making a return very soon.

Has the UK actually got an aircraft carrier at present ?

GoldWithFalmer · Apr 3, 2017

Brighton Lines said:
Has the UK actually got an aircraft carrier at present ?

On sea trials

LVGull · Apr 3, 2017

AmexRuislip said:
You should watch this video, its very interesting.

Great Video

lawros left foot · Apr 3, 2017

Brighton Lines said:
Has the UK actually got an aircraft carrier at present ?

Yep, just not the planes to fly off them.

Thunder Bolt · Apr 3, 2017

There is an account on Twitter following the timeline with the details of the 74 days. Even in bad times, there is humour.

[tweet]848981050583896064[/tweet]

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Falklands '82

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