Police office stabbed and assailant shot outside Parliament, Parliament in lockdown

Hamilton · Mar 24, 2017

Tyrone Biggums said:
Nobody cared when the world went after the Catholic Church in all manner of ways and words. It was seen as being required to get it to change its ways and to accept such attacks if it was to have any kind of place in the world.

Nobody cared what the common Catholic thought or felt. They just had to take it as their penance for being associated with the church. Abuse and all.

Now we have another large religious group who are even more backwards than the Catholics and far more extreme at the "moderates" level and yet they are being defended like it's some benevolent group of people being targeted rather than an ideology based in war and conquering to impose it on others.

There is zero place for Islam in Western society if it can't be taken to the cleaners like the RC church was.

My best mate is a committed Catholic. Just because the Catholic church was clearly riddled with problems when it came to issues like paedophilia, I didn't automatically think he was a danger to my children.

Saying there is 'zero place' is a very dangerous position to take.

Crawley 'Gull · Mar 24, 2017

Hamilton said:
My best mate is a committed Catholic. Just because the Catholic church was clearly riddled with problems when it came to issues like paedophilia, I didn't automatically think he was a danger to my children.

Saying there is 'zero place' is a very dangerous position to take.

The Catholics follow a faith which clearly prohibits paedophilia. If there have been parts of the Catholic church that have enabled this to happen then they are clearly going against the teachings of the religion they claim to follow. There is no justification for it anywhere within their beliefs - therefore these priests are doing what they do despite their religion not because of it.

Islam actively promotes paedophilia, terrorism etc and encourages it's followers to kill in the name of Allah. Therefore saying Islam has zero place in Western society is very logical. Try speaking to minority groups in Muslim countries for an opinion on this (Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Indonesia to name a few). Most Muslims I know are very westernised and against Terrorism however this is irrelevant. It just means they don't fully understand the Koran, Hadiths etc or choose to ignore it. There will always be a sizable minority who do believe what their religion teaches and are willing to carry it out.

Hamilton · Mar 24, 2017

Crawley 'Gull said:
The Catholics follow a faith which clearly prohibits paedophilia. If there have been parts of the Catholic church that have enabled this to happen then they are clearly going against the teachings of the religion they claim to follow. There is no justification for it anywhere within their beliefs - therefore these priests are doing what they do despite their religion not because of it.

Islam actively promotes paedophilia, terrorism etc and encourages it's followers to kill in the name of Allah. Therefore saying Islam has zero place in Western society is very logical. Try speaking to minority groups in Muslim countries for an opinion on this (Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Indonesia to name a few). Most Muslims I know are very westernised and against Terrorism however this is irrelevant. It just means they don't fully understand the Koran, Hadiths etc or choose to ignore it. There will always be a sizable minority who do believe what their religion teaches and are willing to carry it out.

Matthew 5:19 Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Guess we're all going to Hell then, as I'll bet most of us have failed number 5.

ManOfSussex · Mar 24, 2017

Yoda said:
There was also a picture, that didn't do the rounds, of a white male in a suit doing exactly the same thing in the opposite direction. But because it doesn't serve some people's agenda's it was missed by quite a few hundred thousand people.

Hamilton said:
You might mean this one.

Probably lots more. Could have been you and me.

Perhaps this guy (and the girl) had helped someone else on the bridge. Perhaps they just felt helpless.

I recall that people were walking past Lee Rigby and his killers 4 years ago too, but as they didn't tick certain boxes, they weren't seized upon in quite the same way as that woman on Westminster Bridge was.

Crawley 'Gull · Mar 24, 2017

Hamilton said:
Matthew 5:19 Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Guess we're all going to Hell then, as I'll bet most of us have failed number 5.

What's that got to do with the point I made!?

Hamilton · Mar 24, 2017

Crawley 'Gull said:
What's that got to do with the point I made!?

You seemed to be making the point that Islam promotes paedophilia, terrorism etc. so I thought I'd point out that the New Testament seems to think that 99.9% of us are going to Hell.

Always dangerous to look for the answers in any religion. But then again, as Jesus said, judge and you will be judged.

I suggest 'Live and Let Live' as a better motto.

Wellesley · Mar 24, 2017

Tyrone Biggums said:
Jesus can't inspire violence, he preached peace. There's nothing he is recorded as saying or doing that can insight another person to harm another.

Jesus is nothing like Muhammad.

It is wrong to make comparisons between the two. They would have been in different weight categories for a start.

studio150 · Mar 24, 2017

So a mere two days after the Westminster attack and this thread has now descended into a religious bun fight of my god is better than your god and followers of your god must be banished from here.

Can we not accept that no religion is bad, there are only bad believers and everyone should be tolerate of others and offer friendship across the divide.

and for the avoidance of doubt I neither follow or believe in any god, but I never shun anyone for their beliefs.

The_Viper · Mar 24, 2017

Tyrone Biggums said:
Nobody cared when the world went after the Catholic Church in all manner of ways and words. It was seen as being required to get it to change its ways and to accept such attacks if it was to have any kind of place in the world.

Nobody cared what the common Catholic thought or felt. They just had to take it as their penance for being associated with the church. Abuse and all.

Now we have another large religious group who are even more backwards than the Catholics and far more extreme at the "moderates" level and yet they are being defended like it's some benevolent group of people being targeted rather than an ideology based in war and conquering to impose it on others.

There is zero place for Islam in Western society if it can't be taken to the cleaners like the RC church was.

100% agree as I have said earlier in the topic. Islam has to modernise or it needs to be shunned until it does.

Deleted member 22389 · Mar 24, 2017

You really don't to get understand the full extent of change this religion brings unless you have lived within or outside an Islamic community in your own town. There are many people that have migrated to this country over the years that are still carrying on as thou they are still living in their own country. They might not be extremists, but the could well hold very conservative views, and that's why it needs to modernise. It is the Conservative views that could lead on to the more extreme views. That is the impression I got living where I used too. Women walking down the road in burqa, which I used to see frequently is not moderate in my opinion.

Bold Seagull · Mar 24, 2017

The_Viper said:
100% agree as I have said earlier in the topic. Islam has to modernise or it needs to be shunned until it does.

You make it sound like it is just one thing. But, like Christianity, where we have Catholics, Protestants, Anglicans, Baptists, whatever other denominations, it isn't just one thing, each faction is completely separate from the other, and like many religions the factions are often in conflict with each other. A modern outward looking muslim like Sadiq Khan couldn't be further from a radicalised individual prepared for violence, and yet you're effectively trying to say they are all the same under one banner.

The biggest fear is when we hear statements like 'zero place in Western Society', then they've won - simple as that. If you want to surrender, then do what Trump is doing, travel bans, walls, whatever, because you are giving them exactly what they've set out to achieve.

Crawley 'Gull · Mar 24, 2017

Hamilton said:
You seemed to be making the point that Islam promotes paedophilia, terrorism etc. so I thought I'd point out that the New Testament seems to think that 99.9% of us are going to Hell.

Always dangerous to look for the answers in any religion. But then again, as Jesus said, judge and you will be judged.

I suggest 'Live and Let Live' as a better motto.

Christianity has been the bedrock of our society (like it or not) for centuries. It teaches it's followers to love their enemies and pray for those who persecute them, to help the poor and sick etc. It also believes in the idea of heaven and hell - i.e. there will be a final judgment and we cannot just live how we want and there not be any consequences. Is it really that bad if people believe this and you don't? There is no place in Christianity for forcing people to convert and certainly no place for violence.

It's bizarre that when people point out that in Islam 1.7 billion people follow a religion that actively encourages it's followers to kill non-believers, wage war against infidels etc etc people will start bashing Christianity. Every terrorist attack carried out in the name of Allah and people start bashing the bible. Really strange.

If you don't want to believe the Koran or the Hadiths to see how dangerous Islam is then look at what's going on around the world. It's easy to say 'let and let live' but some people are very concerned at the way Islam seems to be being promoted in this country!

Albumen · Mar 24, 2017

https://www.facebook.com/Channel4News/videos/10154682150326939/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED

Bold Seagull · Mar 24, 2017

Crawley 'Gull said:
Christianity has been the bedrock of our society (like it or not) for centuries. It teaches it's followers to love their enemies and pray for those who persecute them, to help the poor and sick etc. It also believes in the idea of heaven and hell - i.e. there will be a final judgment and we cannot just live how we want and there not be any consequences. Is it really that bad if people believe this and you don't? There is no place in Christianity for forcing people to convert and certainly no place for violence.

Well, this is just naive. Nobody is bible bashing, I think you'll find its religion bashing as a whole. If you truly believe that there is no place for violence in Christianity then you've never read the bible clearly. There have been more terrorist acts by the Christian Army of God against abortionists in the US than we've had Muslim attacks here. But of course, we don't look at them as Christians – of course not, because they are friggin nutcase fanatics!!

The_Viper · Mar 24, 2017

Bold Seagull said:
You make it sound like it is just one thing. But, like Christianity, where we have Catholics, Protestants, Anglicans, Baptists, whatever other denominations, it isn't just one thing, each faction is completely separate from the other, and like many religions the factions are often in conflict with each other. A modern outward looking muslim like Sadiq Khan couldn't be further from a radicalised individual prepared for violence, and yet you're effectively trying to say they are all the same under one banner.

The biggest fear is when we hear statements like 'zero place in Western Society', then they've won - simple as that. If you want to surrender, then do what Trump is doing, travel bans, walls, whatever, because you are giving them exactly what they've set out to achieve.

Over half of British Muslims think being gay should be illegal (52%), that is safe enough for me to say that a rather large collective feel this way. Almost 40% expect their wives to obey them. That is an awful lot of denominations that think these things and it is not what I consider an acceptable way of life in today's modern world. People got (rightly) utterly battered for not baking a cake due to people being gay, 50% of the muslims that live around you think homosexuality should be illegal, that isn't someone in Baghdad that's somebody 2 streets over from you. Islam has not had to progress beyond its base teachings, other religions all have and rightly so. I'm labeling the religion unacceptable, not every single member of it.

By the way what these terrorists have set out to achieve isn't to have us say things like 'zero place in Western Society', what they want is to eradicate every single human being on this planet that is not in line with their thoughts.

edna krabappel · Mar 24, 2017

Don't the holy texts for each of the major world religions contain elements which are interpreted differently by different believers?

The Koran may well urge the killing of non-believers according to some people's interpretation, but to others, it also says that to kill another man is to kill all of humanity. It's just a question of the individual's belief. Some people read the Bible and use it to condemn homosexuality, yet quite happily eat shellfish and wear mixed fibres, acts which are also condemned if you choose to interpret them that way. The Torah has its fair share of "an eye for an eye" type stuff. Haven't seen many Jewish people running around carrying out revenge attacks though.

Crawley 'Gull · Mar 24, 2017

Bold Seagull said:
Well, this is just naive. Nobody is bible bashing, I think you'll find its religion bashing as a whole. If you truly believe that there is no place for violence in Christianity then you've never read the bible clearly. There have been more terrorist acts by the Christian Army of God against abortionists in the US than we've had Muslim attacks here. But of course, we don't look at them as Christians – of course not, because they are friggin nutcase fanatics!!

I'm trying to work out whether this is a serious post! You say nobody is bible bashing and yet every thread about terrorism or religion results in large numbers of people specifically bashing Christianity and the bible. Even in this post you single out Christianity as being violent and lay into 'Christians' in the US!!

You don't just define a religion by it's followers, but by what the religion teaches. Tens of thousands of people have been killed in the name of Islam in the last few years alone. You point to abortionists being murdered in the US as your example and yet how many abortionists have Christians in total killed. Again, even though most Christians are against abortion there is not justification in the teachings of Christianity for murdering/attacking abortionists.

Bold Seagull · Mar 24, 2017

edna krabappel said:
Don't the holy texts for each of the major world religions contain elements which are interpreted differently by different believers?

The Koran may well urge the killing of non-believers according to some people's interpretation, but to others, it also says that to kill another man is to kill all of humanity. It's just a question of the individual's belief. Some people read the Bible and use it to condemn homosexuality, yet quite happily eat shellfish and wear mixed fibres, acts which are also condemned if you choose to interpret them that way. The Torah has its fair share of "an eye for an eye" type stuff. Haven't seen many Jewish people running around carrying out revenge attacks though.

Well yeah, exactly. But clearly, others might say my religion good, that religion bad. And we wonder why there is conflict in the world.

Crawley 'Gull · Mar 24, 2017

Bold Seagull said:
Well yeah, exactly. But clearly, others might say my religion good, that religion bad. And we wonder why there is conflict in the world.

You've ignored my last response to you?

Again it's bizarre you seem to label all religions as basically the same, I.e they've all got good bits all got bad bits and it's followers just chose which bits to follow. This is completely ignorant.

If you compare the life of Jesus to the life of Muhammad there is no comparison. Muhammad spoke violence against those who disagree with him and killed those that didn't submit to his teaching endorsed rape and paedophilla etc etc whereas Jesus spoke of Loving his enemies and laid down his life for others and encouraged his followers to do the same. Don't take my words for it - read up for it yourself!

Bold Seagull · Mar 24, 2017

Crawley 'Gull said:
You've ignored my last response to you?

Again it's bizarre you seem to label all religions as basically the same, I.e they've all got good bits all got bad bits and it's followers just chose which bits to follow. This is completely ignorant.

If you compare the life of Jesus to the life of Muhammad there is no comparison. Muhammad spoke violence against those who disagree with him and killed those that didn't submit to his teaching endorsed rape and paedophilla etc etc whereas Jesus spoke of Loving his enemies and laid down his life for others and encouraged his followers to do the same. Don't take my words for it - read up for it yourself!

No, not all religions are basically the same, but how the followers can interpret them differently is the same. Why would I compare the lives of two largely fictional characters whom our only knowledge is contradicting accounts of disciples or ancient texts who worshipped them and thought they were prophets or the son of God? You can only have faith that Jesus spoke of loving his enemies and did what he did because of contradicting accounts, of 12 different people, who may or may not have existed themselves. Even the translations over the centuries have often been politically motivated. How many denominations has it splintered into because no one has ever agreed on the messages? If I picked up the bible tomorrow, my reading could be completely different to anyone else's. That is what I am saying, and I can assure, try as you might, it is far from ignorant.

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