Q for the history buffs: Monte Cassino - anyone been?

Goldstone1976 · Mar 21, 2017

Pretty pink fairy said:
Battle of Crete , Souda bay, Maleme Airfield
regards
DR

I knew very little about Maleme prior to your post piquing my curiosity. Having now done just a little research, I've ordered a couple of books, one on the Battle of Crete itself and the other a biography of Charles 'Pug' Upham, a modest and extraordinarily brave Kiwi and the only combat soldier in history to have been awarded the VC twice - once for his exploits at Maleme, and the other for actions at El Alamein.

This led me to look for other holders of the VC whose grave I could easily visit, and I found CSM George Gristock (VC awarded for action South of Tournai in WWII), buried in the war graves section of Bear Road cemetery, Brighton. Coincidentally, his VC is on display at Norwich castle, permitting me to pay my respects at his grave and see his medal within the next month.

I know, of course, that VC recipients are but a tiny sample of the heroism exhibited by our armed forces personnel, but it helps to have something tangible to provide some focus for a visit to a war grave cemetery.

Thanks for the nudge, PPF.

Blue3 · Mar 21, 2017

Binney on acid said:
The logistics, The fact that the Monastery was razed to the ground and rebuilt. It doesn't look less than 100 years old, and the endless rows of well manicured graves. I remember one of them was for a soldier who could have been no more than 18. His wife and two children never saw him again. I almost felt guilty for still being alive.

Visiting war graves or concentration camps something everyone should do at least once to help ensure we never forget what was done by humans like us against other humans just like us

The Antikythera Mechanism · Mar 21, 2017

My Father fought with the 8th Army at Monte Cassino. He said the slaughter was unimaginable, with bodies lying three deep you had to make the decision to face the machine gun fire or seek cover amongst the bodies, many of which were in an advanced state of decomposition. He had recurring nightmares about it until his dying day.

Garry Nelson's teacher · Mar 21, 2017

Can't claim any expertise but I understand that the Italy campaign was a tough one. The troops were referred to a D-Day Dodgers! This song (to the tune of Lily Marlene) captures some of their resentment:

We're the D-Day Dodgers, way off in Italy
Always on the vino, always on the spree;
Eighth Army scroungers and their tanks,
We live in Rome, among the Yanks.
We are the D-Day Dodgers, way out in Italy;(2X)
We landed in Salerno, a holiday with pay,
The Jerries brought the bands out to greet us on the way.
Showed us the sights and gave us tea,
We all sang songs, the beer was free
To welcome D-Day Dodgers to sunny Italy.
Naples and Casino were taken in our stride,
We didn't go to fight there, we went just for the ride.
Anzio and Sangro were just names,
We only went to look for dames
The artful D-Day Dodgers, way out in Italy.
Dear Lady Astor, you think you're mighty hot,
Standing on the platform, talking tommyrot.
You're England's sweetheart and her pride
We think your mouth's too bleeding wide.
We are the D-Day Dodgers, in sunny Italy.
Look around the mountains, in the mud and rain,
You'll find the scattered crosses, some that have no name.
Heartbreak and toil and suffering gone,
The boys beneath them slumber on.
They are the D-Day Dodgers who stay in Italy.
Note: An apocryphal story --- that of Lady Astor accusing the
British forces in Italy of being "D-Day Dodgers" --- was widely
circulated. This song was a non-apocryphal response.

Read more: Clancy Brothers - The D-day Dodgers Lyrics | MetroLyrics

Rodney Thomas · Mar 21, 2017

Goldstone1976 said:
I knew very little about Maleme prior to your post piquing my curiosity. Having now done just a little research, I've ordered a couple of books, one on the Battle of Crete itself and the other a biography of Charles 'Pug' Upham, a modest and extraordinarily brave Kiwi and the only combat soldier in history to have been awarded the VC twice - once for his exploits at Maleme, and the other for actions at El Alamein.

This led me to look for other holders of the VC whose grave I could easily visit, and I found CSM George Gristock (VC awarded for action South of Tournai in WWII), buried in the war graves section of Bear Road cemetery, Brighton. Coincidentally, his VC is on display at Norwich castle, permitting me to pay my respects at his grave and see his medal within the next month.

I know, of course, that VC recipients are but a tiny sample of the heroism exhibited by our armed forces personnel, but it helps to have something tangible to provide some focus for a visit to a war grave cemetery.

Thanks for the nudge, PPF.

I would also highly recommend Kidnap in Crete by Rick Stroud which tells the story of SOE (including Patrick Leigh Fermor) and Greek Resistance who kidnapped a German general in 1944. Really interesting read and superbly told by Stroud.

Pretty pink fairy · Mar 21, 2017

Goldstone1976 said:
I knew very little about Maleme prior to your post piquing my curiosity. Having now done just a little research, I've ordered a couple of books, one on the Battle of Crete itself and the other a biography of Charles 'Pug' Upham, a modest and extraordinarily brave Kiwi and the only combat soldier in history to have been awarded the VC twice - once for his exploits at Maleme, and the other for actions at El Alamein.

This led me to look for other holders of the VC whose grave I could easily visit, and I found CSM George Gristock (VC awarded for action South of Tournai in WWII), buried in the war graves section of Bear Road cemetery, Brighton. Coincidentally, his VC is on display at Norwich castle, permitting me to pay my respects at his grave and see his medal within the next month.

I know, of course, that VC recipients are but a tiny sample of the heroism exhibited by our armed forces personnel, but it helps to have something tangible to provide some focus for a visit to a war grave cemetery.

Thanks for the nudge, PPF.

my pleasure , German invasion attacks at Chania, Rethymnon, and Iraklion as well as Maleme, local Cretans putting up fierce resistance on all fronts, , Souda bay is the biggest natural harbour in Europe where the British cemetery is, German paratroop cemetery on the hill over looking Maleme Airfield which I visited last year. , allied forces evacuated on the south coast (Lybian sea)where there is a memorial for there Bravery
regards
DR

daveinprague · Mar 21, 2017

Blue3 said:
Visiting war graves or concentration camps something everyone should do at least once to help ensure we never forget what was done by humans like us against other humans just like us

I visited the Somme Battlefields in my early twenties, and realised then that I had already had a good run at life.
Seeing graves containing 15, 16, 17 and 18 year old boys has always made me feel grateful for my time.

Hamilton · Mar 21, 2017

My grandfather fought at Monte Cassino. He never got over the shock of battle and committed suicide on his return to England after the war. I don't think my father ever fully recovered from discovering his body as a young boy. War takes many many victims.

Cheshire Cat · Mar 21, 2017

Goldstone1976 said:
I knew very little about Maleme prior to your post piquing my curiosity. Having now done just a little research, I've ordered a couple of books, one on the Battle of Crete itself and the other a biography of Charles 'Pug' Upham, a modest and extraordinarily brave Kiwi and the only combat soldier in history to have been awarded the VC twice - once for his exploits at Maleme, and the other for actions at El Alamein.

This led me to look for other holders of the VC whose grave I could easily visit, and I found CSM George Gristock (VC awarded for action South of Tournai in WWII), buried in the war graves section of Bear Road cemetery, Brighton. Coincidentally, his VC is on display at Norwich castle, permitting me to pay my respects at his grave and see his medal within the next month.

I know, of course, that VC recipients are but a tiny sample of the heroism exhibited by our armed forces personnel, but it helps to have something tangible to provide some focus for a visit to a war grave cemetery.

Thanks for the nudge, PPF.

Also see the Sword of Honour trilogy by Evelyn Waugh - its fiction but very good - especially the second book, Officers and Gentlemen.

chrisbha · Mar 22, 2017

Went there about 10 years ago very moving and worth a visit

wardy wonder land · Mar 22, 2017

just stumbled on this thread, would like to know where i can do some digging re my grandfather :

Sgt Gerald Meddings
70th Field Regiment Royal Artillery
46th Division (Bradford Regiment)
Fought at Monte Cassino
Saw action in Greece & Sicily

Mentioned in despatches - but can find no reference

Two Professors · Mar 22, 2017

wardy wonder land said:
just stumbled on this thread, would like to know where i can do some digging re my grandfather :

Sgt Gerald Meddings
70th Field Regiment Royal Artillery
46th Division (Bradford Regiment)
Fought at Monte Cassino
Saw action in Greece & Sicily

Mentioned in despatches - but can find no reference

Try the Army Rumours Service,go to Forums,Gunners and ask your questions once you've registered.

portlock seagull · Mar 22, 2017

Hamilton said:
My grandfather fought at Monte Cassino. He never got over the shock of battle and committed suicide on his return to England after the war. I don't think my father ever fully recovered from discovering his body as a young boy. War takes many many victims.

Jesus Christ. That's awful and so so true. Think we've lost more soldiers from suicide after Iraq and Afghanistan than during the campaigns.
RIP grandpa Hamilton

Garry Nelson's Left Foot · Mar 22, 2017

Not sure if it's of any help but I went when I was 8. It blew my mind then so I imagine as an adult capable of fully understanding it would be as equally if not more so.

Simontheseagull · Mar 22, 2017

Have visited twice; the first time on a coach tour and the second time hired a car to provide more freedom in the area.

The second time was by far the best. Was able to get to the Polish memorial on Hill 593 by crawling under the fence in the car park and following a track up the hill past Albaneta Farm. Believe it might be possible to do this legally now by tipping the guard to open the gate at the Polish memorail at the foot of the hill according to this web site: http://battlefieldsww2.50megs.com/hill_593.htm

Was also able to visit both the British and German cemeteries, besides the monestery.

If you are interested in history, visiting Monte Cassino is well worth a visit.

Spiros · Mar 22, 2017

The Antikythera Mechanism said:
My Father fought with the 8th Army at Monte Cassino. He said the slaughter was unimaginable, with bodies lying three deep you had to make the decision to face the machine gun fire or seek cover amongst the bodies, many of which were in an advanced state of decomposition. He had recurring nightmares about it until his dying day.

My father in law was also with 8th army at Monte Cassino. Funny thing is he never discussed it with my wife but in later life was quite happy to give me chapter and verse about it and would clam up as soon as she came into the room. Since he died it was mentioned to the mother in law who just had a vague idea that he was in North Africa, Sicily and Italy during the war but he wouldn't tell her anything else. He had a very understated way of describing what happened, almost as if he wished he was telling someone else's story, however what he did say was quite harrowing and sounded more like WW1 than WW2.

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Q for the history buffs: Monte Cassino - anyone been?

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