Pogue Mahone
Well-known member
- Apr 30, 2011
- 10,732
We are part of the EU (for now). Should all the other member states have had a vote on Brexit?
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IndyRef2...
- Thread starter Titanic
- Start date
We are part of the EU (for now). Should all the other member states have had a vote on Brexit?
Green Cross Code Man
Wunt be druv
The EU is not and has never been a country. The UK is.
The UK is an independent country and can choose to have a vote as and when it likes, with whatever rules it chooses. Scotland isn't, and can't. The Scots need the UK's permission to have a referendum.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,287
during the last indy referendum, several leading figures in EU outright said they'd have to leave and apply to join as any other country, should they vote to leave the UK. there was no ambiguity, maybes or conditions, there is simply no recognised path to "inherit" EU membership, along with a number opposed to any fast track process if there were a will to create one. the Spanish could simply veto their membership, it requires unanimous agreement.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,287
its been mentioned a few times, Treaty of Lisbon provided Article 50 to so that a member state may leave the EU.
deletebeepbeepbeep
Well-known member
- May 12, 2009
- 20,947
happypig
Staring at the rude boys
I can't find a reference to it now but I read that part of Spain's opposition was the SNPs assertion that they would be able to remain in the EU on the same terms as the UK enjoys (which is a better deal than new joiners get). The Spanish (and probably others') position was that Scotland could apply to join but the membership would cost the same, per-capita, as other new joiners.
Was not Was
Loitering with intent
- Jul 31, 2003
- 1,587
That has probably been true until now. But if they can find a way of staying in the EU through independence, with May setting the UK on course for hard brexit, then that might all change.
That might have been a small part of Spain's opposition but the main one is not wanting to encourage The Basque Country and Catalonia.
Scotland has no chance of being allowed in The EU. They are hardly going to lose the second biggest contributor and replace it with another failing nation holding out a begging bowl.
Sturgeon and The SNP are proving a disaster for Scotland. Their only appeal is anti-English bigotry. She wants another referendum soon because it would be her last chance. There has always been a brain-drain but should the Scots vote for independence expect a massive emigration South.
- Apr 5, 2014
- 23,514
I still don't get how votes of monumental and irreversible constitutional change are decided by a 50/50 vote. For example, 52-48 is not 'the will of the people'- it is a reflection of a division of views.
The same result could occur in Scotland. This means that the fabric and make up or our society's affiliation and identity is being torn up beyond previous recognition against the will of almost half the population.
For such monumental change a two to one majority should be sort. If everything was played out on a simple majority the world would be in utter turmoil on a weekly basis.
The same result could occur in Scotland. This means that the fabric and make up or our society's affiliation and identity is being torn up beyond previous recognition against the will of almost half the population.
For such monumental change a two to one majority should be sort. If everything was played out on a simple majority the world would be in utter turmoil on a weekly basis.
Two Professors
Two Mad Professors
How about the best of both worlds.Scotland could stay in the EU and have all our whiners,we will leave and have all the decent people!
I agree. But the fight for that permission is going to be very very damaging.
studio150
Well-known member
Next up Northern Ireland to leave the UK.
At this rate England might be able to get a trade deal with Guam in a few years time, as we are left fighting over scraps as the big players ignore England
Leavers must be rejoicing
At this rate England might be able to get a trade deal with Guam in a few years time, as we are left fighting over scraps as the big players ignore England
Leavers must be rejoicing
Pavilionaire
Well-known member
- Jul 7, 2003
- 30,557
Like Brexit, I think it's conceivable that there could be another 52/48% vote in favour of independence. Imagine how angry you'd feel if you were one of those 48% Pro-Unionists?
So what's changed is that Article 50 will have been triggered and the 2 year countdown will have begun. Is that enough to cause the required 6% swing towards independence? Or will the fall in the oil price have convinced even more floating voters that the Scottish economy is just too precarious.
Let's not forget that Scotland starts paying more income tax that the rest of the UK in just 24 days time as they've frozen the Higher Rate tax threshold that is going up by £2,000 outside Scotland.
The key might be the amount of business Scotland picks up from the rest of the UK if those business desire to remain in the British Isles.
And you wonder what the Northern Ireland Assembly might do now they have a non-Unionist majority in their Chamber.
So what's changed is that Article 50 will have been triggered and the 2 year countdown will have begun. Is that enough to cause the required 6% swing towards independence? Or will the fall in the oil price have convinced even more floating voters that the Scottish economy is just too precarious.
Let's not forget that Scotland starts paying more income tax that the rest of the UK in just 24 days time as they've frozen the Higher Rate tax threshold that is going up by £2,000 outside Scotland.
The key might be the amount of business Scotland picks up from the rest of the UK if those business desire to remain in the British Isles.
And you wonder what the Northern Ireland Assembly might do now they have a non-Unionist majority in their Chamber.
You can keep Stoke for sure.
Cian
Well-known member
The 60/90 pro-EU majority is more interesting there now - the anti-EU parties lost seats across the board. NI has a few very awkward things to deal with if WTO tarrifs etc are introduced - the ROI government owns the entire electrical and 90%+ of the gas grid in NI and operates both as a single market for instance.
Scotland won't be allowed in The EU, but should they be foolish enough to vote for independence England will certainly be getting even more of the brightest Scots than it does already.
I get, and to a certain extent agree with, where you're coming from but surely it's unfair on the majority if they have to garner double the votes to change something ?
And here comes a united Ireland ( and it's not something I'd personally object to *** awaits a flaming *** )
Actually, it is in a democracy.